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True. Like how mathematics declined once the calculator was introduced. Those abacus civilisations are still laughing at our stupidity.

monkaiju 3y ago
If chatgpt was a more sophisticated tool for engaging with the same concepts that would be similar, but its not. Chatgpt isnt a pencil vs a typewriter, its a stochastic parrot, one of the worst applications i could imagine it being used for is helping develop young peoples' world views.
- Swizec 3y ago
  > one of the worst applications i could imagine it being used for is helping develop young peoples' world views As opposed to straight up government propaganda in textbooks? At least chatgpt averages out everyone’s propaganda. edit for clarity: this comment applies to history books, literature, stuff like that. If you look carefully you’ll notice they’re full of stuff designed to instill a sense of national identity and patriotism. Especially obvious when you look at different nation’s textbooks about the same historical events described from opposing sides.
  - HKH2 3y ago
    You get an American-centric perspective, which is of course the correct one.
    - Swizec 3y ago
      Well growing up I got a Slovenian-centric perspective. Except in elementary and middle school it was still a little Yugoslavian-centric because we hadn’t yet quite decided what we wanted to highlight. Very interesting transformation to observe in real time. ChatGPT in general has been pretty decent about saying “Well different people describe this differently …”. Much better than any textbook I remember from school.
graphe 3y ago
The Greeks feared the invention of writing would make memory less important.
- bagels 3y ago
  They weren't wrong, but that's okay, there's too much information for anyone to memorize.
  - somenameforme 3y ago
    Though surely you'd agree that just because some predicted consequence of an effect at one order of magnitude fails to occur (or occurs at an acceptable level), doesn't mean said effect is therefore irrelevant at any scale. The advent of radio led to a number of predictions about negative social consequences. Similar concerns were expressed over television, and then again over social media. We could debate whatever negative consequences radio and TV had, but the exceptionally negative consequence of social media are indisputable at this point. So too here, one could argue the positive/negative impacts of things like the calculator on our mental capabilities, but chatbots are taking this automation of mental processes up an order of a magnitude both in terms of the breadth of things that can be "input", and the variable quality of what is output. The unfortunate thing is really the only way to test this is to basically do what we did with social media - just let a generation have at it, and see what happens.
- pmontra 3y ago
  It did. It also made this very medium possible. I mean: web forums like the one we are writing in now.

monkaiju 3y ago

If chatgpt was a more sophisticated tool for engaging with the same concepts that would be similar, but its not. Chatgpt isnt a pencil vs a typewriter, its a stochastic parrot, one of the worst applications i could imagine it being used for is helping develop young peoples' world views.

Swizec 3y ago
> one of the worst applications i could imagine it being used for is helping develop young peoples' world views As opposed to straight up government propaganda in textbooks? At least chatgpt averages out everyone’s propaganda. edit for clarity: this comment applies to history books, literature, stuff like that. If you look carefully you’ll notice they’re full of stuff designed to instill a sense of national identity and patriotism. Especially obvious when you look at different nation’s textbooks about the same historical events described from opposing sides.
- HKH2 3y ago
  You get an American-centric perspective, which is of course the correct one.
  - Swizec 3y ago
    Well growing up I got a Slovenian-centric perspective. Except in elementary and middle school it was still a little Yugoslavian-centric because we hadn’t yet quite decided what we wanted to highlight. Very interesting transformation to observe in real time. ChatGPT in general has been pretty decent about saying “Well different people describe this differently …”. Much better than any textbook I remember from school.

graphe 3y ago

The Greeks feared the invention of writing would make memory less important.

bagels 3y ago
They weren't wrong, but that's okay, there's too much information for anyone to memorize.
- somenameforme 3y ago
  Though surely you'd agree that just because some predicted consequence of an effect at one order of magnitude fails to occur (or occurs at an acceptable level), doesn't mean said effect is therefore irrelevant at any scale. The advent of radio led to a number of predictions about negative social consequences. Similar concerns were expressed over television, and then again over social media. We could debate whatever negative consequences radio and TV had, but the exceptionally negative consequence of social media are indisputable at this point. So too here, one could argue the positive/negative impacts of things like the calculator on our mental capabilities, but chatbots are taking this automation of mental processes up an order of a magnitude both in terms of the breadth of things that can be "input", and the variable quality of what is output. The unfortunate thing is really the only way to test this is to basically do what we did with social media - just let a generation have at it, and see what happens.
pmontra 3y ago
It did. It also made this very medium possible. I mean: web forums like the one we are writing in now.