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Oslo acquires ChatGPT for 110k students and teachers
- lukew3 3y agoWhy are they buying licenses for it? To promote student equality?
- Palmik 3y agoApparently it's just GPT 3.5 which is freely accessible anyway. If it was GPT 4 / ChatGPT Plus, I would understand.
- philip1209 3y agoI bet it has to do with laws around processing of data for children. From the ChatGPT terms: > Minimum Age. You must be at least 13 years old or the minimum age required in your country to consent to use the Services. If you are under 18 you must have your parent or legal guardian’s permission to use the Services. Source: https://openai.com/policies/terms-of-use https://openai.com/policies/terms-of-use
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- ta988 3y agoWhile high schools across the US are banning it...
- jjtheblunt 3y agowhat do you imply by the ellipsis?
- gbil 3y agoMany universities in Greece currently are closed due to student demonstrations and in many of those the teachers denied holding virtual exams due to lack of standardized exam software and ChatGPT. One could argue that instead of generic questions they could run the exams on questions/topics only taught in class which would be “a bit” difficult for ChatGPT to answer but I guess their excuses have less to do with ChatGPT itself and more with other topics…
- imutemyteam92 3y agoPersonally feel teachers will be the first to lose their jobs. 100% You just need one teacher who acts as a supervisor. And another group that sets the curriculum. No need to actually teach for the most part.
- kriiuuu 3y agoIt sounds like you have no idea about what teachers actually do and how they interact with students.
- ta988 3y agoWhat teachers could do. A lot of them are not doing anything special and just repeat their low quality teaching material. But sure some are genuinely trying to help students understand the topic, be open about the world and even help them in their personal issues. We have excellent tools now for the crude information transmission that could relieve teachers from that annoying part of the job and would allow them to really focus on helping the students in all their dimensions. And that's the part that AI and learning technologies are not able to replace for now if ever. Seeing teachers as pure information providers is a mistake that I have seen in students, parents, teachers and school directors unfortunately, and this usually have disastrous results on students that ripple far in their future.
- dimask 3y agoMaybe in some colleges somewhere in the US they are gonna try that.
- yumraj 3y agoBanning access from within school? Yes? How does that matter if kids can access from home?
- quatrefoil 3y agoPresumably in the sense of setting ground rules - "don't use it for school assignments". No different from saying "you're supposed to do the homework yourself, not pay somebody else to do it for you".
- monkaiju 3y agoWow, maybe this is how we'll overtake the nordic countries in test scores?
- onethought 3y agoTrue. Like how mathematics declined once the calculator was introduced. Those abacus civilisations are still laughing at our stupidity.
- monkaiju 3y agoIf chatgpt was a more sophisticated tool for engaging with the same concepts that would be similar, but its not. Chatgpt isnt a pencil vs a typewriter, its a stochastic parrot, one of the worst applications i could imagine it being used for is helping develop young peoples' world views.
- Swizec 3y ago> one of the worst applications i could imagine it being used for is helping develop young peoples' world views As opposed to straight up government propaganda in textbooks? At least chatgpt averages out everyone’s propaganda. edit for clarity: this comment applies to history books, literature, stuff like that. If you look carefully you’ll notice they’re full of stuff designed to instill a sense of national identity and patriotism. Especially obvious when you look at different nation’s textbooks about the same historical events described from opposing sides.
- HKH2 3y agoYou get an American-centric perspective, which is of course the correct one.
- Swizec 3y agoWell growing up I got a Slovenian-centric perspective. Except in elementary and middle school it was still a little Yugoslavian-centric because we hadn’t yet quite decided what we wanted to highlight. Very interesting transformation to observe in real time. ChatGPT in general has been pretty decent about saying “Well different people describe this differently …”. Much better than any textbook I remember from school.
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- willsmith72 3y agofunny how google translate reads it as "the Swedish Education Agency" despite it being norweigan. deepl gets it right anyone with more knowledge of scandi languages able to understand why? is the "swedish" (or "norweigan") part implied?
- detolly 3y agoNorwegian here. I assume you mean "Utdanningsetaten", which literally translates to "The Education Agency". Apparently sweden does not use the same name, as their word for education is slightly different (utbildning instead of utdanning). Not sure why the translator got it so wrong.
- CapsAdmin 3y agoSeems like a "bug" of some sort in google translate. If you remove some context it works. "Utdanningsetaten" translates to "Education Agency". But I guess instead of "The Education Agency" it tries to translate it into context, which should be "The Norwegian Education Agency". However it seems confused about which country is being talked about so it just think it's Sweden maybe.
- philip1209 3y agoThis seems to align with the mindset of pragmatism in the Nordics. I can imagine somebody there saying "This is now a standard business technology. So, we will teach it to our students to prepare them."
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- hiAndrewQuinn 3y agoCorrect. We don't have a lot of people up here, so any individual person who gets hired to a job has to be ready to wear many hats. To my understanding this is even more true in Norway than in my adoptive home of Finland (sounds exciting, my wife and I are strongly considering moving). Technologies like GPT-4, much like Google search before it, vastly increase the number of things we can do acceptably well without needing to study it in depth beforehand - letting us save those extra brain cells for where they really count.
- panxyh 3y agoTime is saved, brain cells don’t need to ;)
- philip1209 3y agoIt's intellectually dishonest to assume that AI decreases intelligence.
- gamesbrainiac 3y agoIt’s GPT 3.5 though.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- wkat4242 3y agoMuch faster, 10x cheaper and still good enough for most things. I don't think gpt-4 is worth its 10fold price premium for all but niche usecases (coding may be one but I don't do that too much). And the much longer response delays are annoying. I think 3.5 turbo is a really nice general use model. And the price difference makes it worry free (I use it a lot and most months I used less than $1) whereas gpt-4 really tends to trigger disturbing invoices after using it a bit :) I still have 4 on tap for a second opinion if I'm dissatisfied with gpt-3.5 but in general it doesn't really yield much better results, whereas better prompt engineering helps much more with both models. Of course YMMV but I wouldn't write gpt-3.5 off just because it's no longer the coolest kid on the block.
- hackerlight 3y agoI recommend free access Bard (Gemini Pro, which is better than GPT-3.5) for the miscellaneous requests and GPT-4 if you need quality.
- wkat4242 3y agoI don't trust Google enough to feed them my data though. I don't even use a google account on my Android devices :) OpenAI and Microsoft aren't a lot better but it is somewhat better at least. So Gemini isn't an option for me. Curiously enough, LLaMa 2 is, even though it's from meta, but the fact that you can run it at home is of course a real winner for privacy.
- agildehaus 3y agoMaybe it will teach them skepticism with its hallucinations.
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- changoplatanero 3y agoThere is a worry expressed in the article about inequality arising from some students having paid access to gpt4 whereas the bulk of the students only get access to gpt3.5. I'm hoping to see openai release an update to the 3.5 model that makes this gap in performance be less relevant.
- Bugaddr 3y agoThat would be against there money making model ? But I think considering 110k users, they can reconsider there business.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- imutemyteam92 3y agoTbf its really not that big of a deal. First people have to be taught to use it, for that 3.5 is decent. I guess its like your grandma using Google, vs as a working professional using Google. Your grandma using google is still a plus.
- singularity2001 3y agowhile 4.0 is mostly astonishing and amazing 3.5 is often annoying and borderline useless at least for professionals, maybe kids don't care too much
- man4 3y ago[dead]
- gandalfgeek 3y agoMy brain stopped in surprise after parsing the first half of that headline. "Oslo acquires ChatGPT.."?!
- philip1209 3y agoNorway has the funds: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Pension_Fund_of_Norway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Pension_Fund_of_Nor...
- n00bskoolbus 3y agoRelated but mostly in criticism of a dissimilar approach: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alberta_Heritage_Savings_Trust_Fund#Criticisms https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alberta_Heritage_Savings_Trust...
- Cort3z 3y agoThe fund already owns an obscene amount of Microsoft, so they already kind of own it. Edit: typo
- gbraad 3y agoSo it was not just me...
- schiffern 3y agoI, for one, welcome our new Norwegian overlords. btw it's called a garden-path sentence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden-path_sentence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden-path_sentence
- subbu 3y ago__A garden-path sentence is a grammatically correct sentence that starts in such a way that a reader's most likely interpretation will be incorrect; the reader is lured into a parse that turns out to be a dead end or yields a clearly unintended meaning. "Garden path" refers to the saying "to be led down [or up] the garden path", meaning to be deceived, tricked, or seduced.__
- seydor 3y agoTry cheating now, students
- behnamoh 3y agoWhy not use a combination of open source and OpenAI models? GPT-3.5 is already beaten by Mixtral and Mistral-Medium. The first one you can host for free and the second has a darn cheap API while getting really close to GPT-4 performance.
- weird-eye-issue 3y ago"GPT-3.5 is already beaten by Mixtral and Mistral-Medium" Not really relevant when they will be using GPT-4, is it? Plus the powerful features from code interpreter is a night and day difference Not everything is worth saving a bit of money to get worse performance from something that has a worse network effect
- mepian 3y agoThe article says GPT-3.5 though.
- onethought 3y agoBut that’s free. So what did they acquire then? Logins?
- imutemyteam92 3y agoWhy would anyone use 3.5 though... I guess organisations move slow. But atleast now they will have a culture and practices of working around it.
- weird-eye-issue 3y ago
- FredPret 3y agoItaly: ban ChatGPT, then unban it again Norway: buy 110k licenses
- mrtksn 3y agoThat's pretty much Europe. Drastically different mindsets from London to Istanbul and Oslo to Barcelona. Sometimes I'm surprised how EU(though a smaller subset of Europe) even manages to agree on anything.
- sexy_seedbox 3y agoSounds like the United States of America.
- mrtksn 3y agoIs it?
- arlort 3y agoA mix and match of the US immediately after the constitution was signed and the US during the Articles of Confederation is the best way to think about it
- mrtksn 3y agoThat was long ago. Europe's latest great war was like 80 years ago, the standardisation and free movement through EU and Schengen are even fresher. The language barriers aren't even lifted yet, though the young seems to be quite good with adopting English as lingua franca. Yet, most of the Europeans can't talk to each other because the older generations in general will speak the language of their neighbour only and that will be around the border regions. Some smaller countries are better though. "European" as an identity is a rough diamond still.
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- foreverobama 3y ago[dead]
- krupan 3y agoAm I the only one left with a deep distrust of ChatGPT? It still lies ("hallucinates"), doesn't it? And no, I will not accept a rebuttal that says, "well everyone lies" because no, not everyone is as confidently wrong as ChatGPT. It's doesn't qualify statements with, "I was told..." or, "some believe..." or, "I'm not sure but it might be..." It just flat out lies. People are enthralled with this tech when they should still be very very skeptical.
- MattGaiser 3y agoIt does make mistakes, but it gets stuff right enough to be worth it. And if you catch it in a lie, you can just tell it and usually it will correct itself. To me, it is like a junior developer. It does the bulk of the work and whenever there is an issue, you can tell it like in a code review to fix a particular piece. Look past the confidence level and focus on the work product. Remember, it doesn’t need to always be accurate. It doesn’t need to be perfect. It just needs to outperform the alternative (passable job here) for the price paid (amazing value here).
- _flux 3y agoA junior developer will figure out and hopefully confess when he's way over his head, but ChatGPT will happily respond "oh right you are, that makes no sense, here's a corrected version"—just to respond with a version that is also false in a way that might not be readily apparent. ChatGPT ultimately doesn't know what it doesn't know, unless it's been told so explicitly (this is my current understanding which may be flawed; I'd like to know the "not knowing" would otherwise work in this system!). But indeed it's still quite useful. It's best used in situations where it doesn't matter much if the answer is right, or when the answer can be easily checked if it's correct, yet more annoying to come up by oneself in the first place.
- leosanchez 3y agoYou are definitely not alone :)
- ryanjshaw 3y agoIt doesn't "lie" (there's no intent to deceive). It makes "mistakes" [1]. It's a tool that is increasingly a part of the modern world whether you like it or not. Students who learn how to use the tool, which includes learning its limitations, will benefit overall. [1] technically it doesn't even make "mistakes", it's just an LLM doing its thing, but we humans like to anthropomorphise
- flemhans 3y agoSell-Outs? Will they share data?
- 8oclock 3y agoShare what data?
- paul7986 3y agoJust saw that Altman is working with Johnny Ives on AI hardware... could an AI (Microsoft) phone which it's UI focus is a text or voice prompt with some app icons but not app icon driven (how the phone UX paradigm is now) be in the works? The text or voice prompt performs & displays your requests in text, voice and or graphical representations of the data and or task you requested it to complete. No need to drill down into an app and click through screens to complete a task, find info you seek .. the AI driven phone does all the drilling down for you and shows (speaks too if you choose) what you requested in a nice pretty format (graphical representation with text to infographs). No need to go or even use Google!
- reilly3000 3y agoIt will be interesting to see how this shapes the lives of the students and educators. Its embrace signals some acquiescence to the reality that LLMs are here to stay and may as well be used to their full potential. I imagine students being able to cover a lot of ground on a topic with ChatGPT and interrogate it with detail, as well as learn how to fact check its contents. This stands in sharp contrast towards US schools which seem to treat it as a chance to cheat. Very different mentalities about learning and life stand behind that contrast.
- hattmall 3y agoI use chatgpt, begrudgingly, because it's frequently wrong and takes a lot of iterations to get something right. But, I use it, because Google sucks. I would have very little use for chatgpt with the Google of,I guess, like 10-12 years ago. You could go back even further and ~25 years ago, I had an entire class on using search engines and all manner of advanced operators and search techniques. With today's computing power it would be awesome to see what the search engines of past decades could have become if not for the monetary incentives to obscure information and increase engagement.
- liampulles 3y agoI feel very similar. I would like an LLM search engine which is adept at finding pertinent information, but does not try to re-synthesise what it finds. I.e. good google
- brettgo1 3y agoIt'll be interesting to see how kids will respond to AI hallucinations. Will they just accept it as fact?
- MattGaiser 3y agoAdults accept all manner of weird claims generated by humans on Facebook, television or in their mailbox as fact, especially if said confidently and authoritiatively. So while I expect many kids to also accept hallucinations as fact, I am not sure that is a much different world.
- mewpmewp2 3y agoMaybe it will teach them critical thinking.
- 15457345234 3y agoWhen you ask an AI for a list of citations and it returns a list of 10 names, pages and dates no amount of 'critical thinking' will let you determine which answers are correct or incorrect, you have to sit there and painfully cross-reference each one. The 'critical thinking' part at this point in time leads you to only one conclusion: that the tool is unreliable and dangerous and shouldn't be used. Or, you're teaching kids that they need to cross-reference all 'authoritative sources' which leads to a complete failure of the system - if you give kids a textbook will they have been 'trained' by GPT to not believe a word of any of the claims in it without cross-referencing? How does that enable better education. If you provide a tool from a position of authority it needs to be a reliable and believable tool; standing in a position of authority and handing out access (to children!) to a lie box and asking those children to 'rely on it' is frankly abusive. That's beyond mixed messaging, that's just some form of weird mental torture.
- singularity2001 3y agochecking the first source to see that it's none existing will (hopefully) teach you a lesson
- throwerrrr 3y ago[dead]
- huytersd 3y agoIt’s 3.5. Why even bother with that version, it’s an order of magnitude worse than 4.
- choppaface 3y agoImagine if 20 years ago search engines sent sales reps to schools and sold access. Copilot is completely free when using Edge with a Bing account. Why spend a dime of taxpayer money on this??
- Barrin92 3y agoData protection and privacy for one. As the article says none of the student interaction will be used for training data which probably means you'll have to iron out some sort of educational licensing deal with OpenAI and separate access to the API for students.
- choppaface 3y agoNot something that should require a special contract for a user under the age of 13.
- robomartin 3y agoI've had many discussions with non-technical people, teachers, engineers, academics and researchers on the topic of education and AI. The conversation often starts with me asking this question: In a future where every person has an all-knowing assistance in their pocket --a nearly perfect AI who knows it all-- what should we teach in schools, from early childhood to university? The corollary to that question is: When that happens, what will be important in people? How do people add value to an organization? The answers are, as might be expected, varied. Some are dismissive. They simply do not believe that moment will come or that it will be as described. That it cannot be as described. Others are more apocalyptic and come very close to being fearful of this future. Yet another group is glad they are older and will get to watch this happen while retired. In some cases there's a struggle understanding how to teach certain subjects, mathematics being a typical example. If you have a device that can solve any and all mathematical problems --and even explain them-- what do you need to know about math? My take so far --I say "so far" because this doesn't even approach a supportable conclusion-- is that the differentiating factor will be experience and the ability to effectively connect, or use, multidisciplinary knowledge. Maybe I look at this from an entrepreneurial perspective. A small experienced team will be able to rent or buy thousands of experts and workers across every possible discipline and, using their experience, put them to work towards a stated objective. A person who is "mono-skilled" (I'm sure that's not a term), will not be able to utilize these tools to the same level of advantage. And, yes, I think you will have to know a lot about a lot of subjects. That's the only way to understand if the AI tools and workers are rowing in the right direction. How we impart this knowledge is a different matter. One thing is certain, education will have to change radically to address the devaluation of raw knowledge in favor of being able to take different types of knowledge lego blocks to make things happen. It is possible that Norway's leaders just made a genius move by making ChatGPT available to everyone in this way. Brilliant.
- hasoleju 3y agoThis is only a minor invest compared to the financial support they provide for the students already. I tried to google the exact amount of funding they get. The best I came up with is a 8890 USD loan per year where 40% of it will be converted to a grant once they receive their degree.
- awildfivreld 3y agoThis article is talking about elementary, middle and high schools in Oslo municipality. The grant you're talking about is for higher education nation wide. Even still, they use quite a lot of money too.
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- throwaway4good 3y agoCurious about data protection here as Google Chromebooks famously had trouble with public schools in the EU. OpenAI may have the same or worse issues.
- chaosprint 3y agoMy opinion: irresponsible for children; it's just that some civil servants want to show that they understand the trend. They love to do this kind of movement in order to "show off". But the fact is that they only have a partial understanding of this technology and follow what others say. There is no information that they compared open source models and considered whether to build their own data servers. You should at least do some experiments to show that gpt can improve quality in education, right? Although I know that data manipulation is common in scientific research nowadays by picking the data that better serve the wanted assumption, but this time they even skip this step. Disclaimer: I live in Oslo; I'm an educator; I usually see similar poor decisions in education due to ignorance.
- klodolph 3y agoReminds me of when school districts would buy iPads or laptops or computer labs without any idea of how those machines would support their mission.
- tpetry 3y agoExactly. I‘ve seen it sold that anyone has less books to carry and they could do more digital stuff - but nobody had any real plans. In the end one of ten text books was a PDF and you didn‘t gain anything. Its worse, now your textbook can have no battery and there are no electricity plugs near you…
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- wodenokoto 3y agoNot having a computer lab, even in the 90s, seems irresponsible to me. Yes, figuring out how to teach and what to teach using computers was difficult, but students needs familiarity with computers and how to use them. Saying that "they'll learn on their own in their spare time" is ridiculous and tantamount to saying schools shouldn't be teaching reading, because students will want to read on their own outside school and they already have access to books at home.
- dSebastien 3y agoHope they know that it sucks at math
- singularity2001 3y agoGpt 4 is better than the average human
- timeon 3y agoThat is low bar for students.
- thechimp 3y ago[flagged]
- thechimp 3y ago[flagged]
- feverzsj 3y agoThis is just plain stupid. The next gen kids will lack more ability to collect and analyze information, and thus more manipulatable.
- visarga 3y agoI think LLMs+search like Bard, Bing, Phind.com or Perplexity.ai are decent replacements to bare search. Average web content is worse than GPT stuff. You can see that when they compare models trained on raw web vs other sources (books) or curated web. Using bare search means you have to wade through the garbage, a dumpster diving-like experience. You still need to validate everything, on the web or in a LLM window, and that still requires you have sufficient experience in that topic.
- feverzsj 3y agoAnd how you gonna validate it? By search? I'm not saying LLMs can't be good assistance, but it does no good to kids. It's more important for kids to learn how to identify the truth by digging it themselves.
- vinni2 3y agoSince many commenters are wondering, yes it is GPT-3.5 access through Azure if I am correct. University of Oslo has already done this for their staff and students. They have built a UI https://www.uio.no/english/services/it/ai/gpt-uio/index.html https://www.uio.no/english/services/it/ai/gpt-uio/index.html . They call it privacy-focused ChatGPT, but it is poor quality UI and doesn't have access to GPT-4. It is possible to buy access to GPT-4 but that will be expensive.
- chaosprint 3y agoDoesn't it say "Free access to GPT-4" My FEIDE expires so I cannot try anymore :)
- vinni2 3y agoGood point, but when I sign in I only see GPT-3. My understanding is UiO students and employees have free access to GPT-4 while the other institutions had to buy that as an extra service.
- coldfireza 3y agofirst world problems, our free 3.5 turbo creates a divide with the kids on gpt 4
- sensanaty 3y agoI find it disgusting that EU governments are giving even a singular cent to Micro$oft, and I don't even mean for this, I mean in general. The data harvesting psychopathic megacorporation that should've been nuked from orbit 2 decades ago is now growing more and more influential, and there's nothing your average EU citizen can do about it since politicians are all spineless cowards easily bought by M$'s vast coffers.
- maxglute 3y agoHow well does chatgpt work in norwegian?
- rldjbpin 3y agothe article recognizes a potential divide between those who pay for the gpt-4 model or not. personally using either is not worth the trade off, but i did see from my own experiences the impact of having the right things can have on your work ethic. when i changed schools and realized that students scored more because they have access to past exams and they would rather practice them then study the material. in a competitive environment, it nudged me to also adapt to this strategy rather than learning the concepts the intended way. regarding hallucinations, i wonder how much critical thinking would matter. back when students referred to wikipedia or random search results for an essay, a fair bit of them just take the material for its word.