3 ms·

I've been fearing this. Boo. The keyboard is one of the prime motivators for me to stay on ThinkPad. I guess if I don't beat the launch, I'll pick up a last-

I've been fearing this. Boo. The keyboard is one of the prime motivators for me to stay on ThinkPad. I guess if I don't beat the launch, I'll pick up a last-generation machine used -- hopefully at some discount -- and hope that it "lasts awhile". I've been asking around, including on HN, whether anyone has experience with Lenovo's chicklet keyboards and whether they've managed to reduce if not remove the suck that I've experienced with other brands' chicklet keyboards. P.S. I seem to recall seeing a story/photo implying that the T430 will have a chicklet keyboard, as well. Can anyone confirm or refute this?

jasonkester 15y ago
This seems to be a trend with Thinkpads. They have a tendency to remove the best features of their best models when they update to the next generation. Think of the X60 -> X220 transition. They took an amazing little road machine and squished the screen so far that it's pretty much useless for anything but playing movies. I certainly wouldn't want to see how many lines of code I could fit into 768 pixels, especially given how nice the X60/61 was with its proper 4:3 display. So here we are, six years later and I'm still buying refurbished X60s off eBay to use as my dev box on the road. If they'd put out something similar today, they'd have another $2k of my money (several times over by now, in fact).
- pasbesoin 15y ago
  I'm on a T42 that is a secondary "learning" machine. I've thought about buying a T6★, but then figured I should just put the money towards a new machine when I next purchase. Maybe I should reconsider buying a T6★? P.S. The T42 is the first laptop keyboard I've been comfortable with in about the last 10 years. And while my particular model is underpowered in the discrete graphics department, the display is pretty darned fine to look at -- in both dimensions.
- ericabiz 15y ago
  The X200s has a 1440x900 screen. Well worth the extra $. Still waiting for Lenovo to release a new model with a comparable or better screen (it's been 3 years...really disappointed in them at this point.) I'm still using my X200s on a daily basis.
Slackwise 15y ago
> I've been asking around, including on HN, whether anyone has experience with Lenovo's chicklet keyboards and whether they've managed to reduce if not remove the suck that I've experienced with other brands' chicklet keyboards. They are nothing like normal chiclet keyboards. I too hate chiclet keyboards. I hate laptop keyboards in general. But this keyboard is not as bad as I expected, and if anything, potentially better than the old ThinkPad keyboard. First off, there is zero sway in the keys. They're typical ThinkPad stiff and sturdy. The travel is the right distance, so is the resistance of the keys. They're so tight that when I was swapping the Ctrl and Fn keys on my X120e, I felt that I was going to shatter them trying to get the keys off. They just wouldn't budge. And the bigger reason I like these keyboards is, they have curvature, unlike every other chiclet I've ever used. Most chiclets on PC laptops have zero curvature. Just completely flat, terrible. I can't find my way to the center of the keys, and it makes me furious when I start to typo because of it. The recent MacBooks are 'okay', but they still don't have enough curvature. It's barely even noticeable, and I typo on MBP keyboards all the time. You can see the amount of curvature in this picture: http://www.thinkpads.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/lenovo_thinkpad_chiclet_keyboard.jpg http://www.thinkpads.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/lenovo_t... But I do recommend trying it out yourself. I'm still not sold on chiclet keyboards, but at least Lenovo didn't cheap out and make a crappy one.
- pasbesoin 15y ago
  Thank you. I'd noticed the appearance of that curvature in some photos. I'm hoping that I'll find what you described. Good travel and feel. Equal performance when the key is struck off-center. A tactile feel that keeps my fingers positioned and facilitates rapid typing. Keys that don't bottom out at or below the surrounding surface, forcing the user to type "into wells". However, I still find it hard to convince myself I'll like them. But... as you say, I'll give it a try. Before purchasing. Remaining outstanding, my hope that they won't also follow other laptop manufacturers in introducing the "giant shelf" in front of the keyboard, and/or a sharp front edge to same. I can't stand how those press into my wrists particularly when I'm working on a surface that I cannot set to an optimal/ergonomic height (cafe table, conference room table, etc.). (And yes, I've griped about this before, as well. ;-)

jasonkester 15y ago

This seems to be a trend with Thinkpads. They have a tendency to remove the best features of their best models when they update to the next generation. Think of the X60 -> X220 transition. They took an amazing little road machine and squished the screen so far that it's pretty much useless for anything but playing movies. I certainly wouldn't want to see how many lines of code I could fit into 768 pixels, especially given how nice the X60/61 was with its proper 4:3 display. So here we are, six years later and I'm still buying refurbished X60s off eBay to use as my dev box on the road. If they'd put out something similar today, they'd have another $2k of my money (several times over by now, in fact).

pasbesoin 15y ago
I'm on a T42 that is a secondary "learning" machine. I've thought about buying a T6★, but then figured I should just put the money towards a new machine when I next purchase. Maybe I should reconsider buying a T6★? P.S. The T42 is the first laptop keyboard I've been comfortable with in about the last 10 years. And while my particular model is underpowered in the discrete graphics department, the display is pretty darned fine to look at -- in both dimensions.
ericabiz 15y ago
The X200s has a 1440x900 screen. Well worth the extra $. Still waiting for Lenovo to release a new model with a comparable or better screen (it's been 3 years...really disappointed in them at this point.) I'm still using my X200s on a daily basis.

Slackwise 15y ago

> I've been asking around, including on HN, whether anyone has experience with Lenovo's chicklet keyboards and whether they've managed to reduce if not remove the suck that I've experienced with other brands' chicklet keyboards. They are nothing like normal chiclet keyboards. I too hate chiclet keyboards. I hate laptop keyboards in general. But this keyboard is not as bad as I expected, and if anything, potentially better than the old ThinkPad keyboard. First off, there is zero sway in the keys. They're typical ThinkPad stiff and sturdy. The travel is the right distance, so is the resistance of the keys. They're so tight that when I was swapping the Ctrl and Fn keys on my X120e, I felt that I was going to shatter them trying to get the keys off. They just wouldn't budge. And the bigger reason I like these keyboards is, they have curvature, unlike every other chiclet I've ever used. Most chiclets on PC laptops have zero curvature. Just completely flat, terrible. I can't find my way to the center of the keys, and it makes me furious when I start to typo because of it. The recent MacBooks are 'okay', but they still don't have enough curvature. It's barely even noticeable, and I typo on MBP keyboards all the time. You can see the amount of curvature in this picture: http://www.thinkpads.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/lenovo_thinkpad_chiclet_keyboard.jpg http://www.thinkpads.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/lenovo_t... But I do recommend trying it out yourself. I'm still not sold on chiclet keyboards, but at least Lenovo didn't cheap out and make a crappy one.

pasbesoin 15y ago
Thank you. I'd noticed the appearance of that curvature in some photos. I'm hoping that I'll find what you described. Good travel and feel. Equal performance when the key is struck off-center. A tactile feel that keeps my fingers positioned and facilitates rapid typing. Keys that don't bottom out at or below the surrounding surface, forcing the user to type "into wells". However, I still find it hard to convince myself I'll like them. But... as you say, I'll give it a try. Before purchasing. Remaining outstanding, my hope that they won't also follow other laptop manufacturers in introducing the "giant shelf" in front of the keyboard, and/or a sharp front edge to same. I can't stand how those press into my wrists particularly when I'm working on a surface that I cannot set to an optimal/ergonomic height (cafe table, conference room table, etc.). (And yes, I've griped about this before, as well. ;-)