4 ms·

> Define "always", relative to, say, recorded human history. Every second of every day, month, year, etc. they are constantly shifting. The political problems

> Define "always", relative to, say, recorded human history. Every second of every day, month, year, etc. they are constantly shifting. The political problems will sort themselves out (literally people problems), and the infrastructure will be built to accommodate the changing demographics. People move, people build. This is basic stuff.

lapcat 3y ago
> Every second of every day, month, year, etc. they are constantly shifting. People who lives on the coasts don't have to move every second of every day, month, year, etc., due to the coasts moving. In fact, the people almost never have to move due to the coasts moving. > literally people problems Climate change is a people problem. As George Carlin joked, "There's nothing wrong with the planet. The planet is fine. The people are fucked!" > This is basic stuff. No, your comments are oversimplistic and perfunctory.
- basil-rash 3y ago
  > In fact, the people almost never have to move due to the coasts moving. You're misinformed. It's very common in places with hurricanes, for instance. > your comments are oversimplistic and perfunctory. Your entire argument is based on the idea that humans can't move and build, or at least that doing so is "hard". When in fact putting in the hard work to move and build has been the cornerstone of human civilization for as long as human civilization has existed. It's a very conservative view that strangely seems to be held only by liberals: "the way things were is the best way they can possibly be, all this change is no good, we have to go back to the good old days!". With of course nothing real to justify it. You inverted Chronological Snobbery, but it's still just as much as fallacy.
  - lapcat 3y ago
    > You're misinformed. It's very common in places with hurricanes, for instance. No, I'm not misinformed. A good friend of mine was misplaced by Hurricane Katrina—though the problem was that he lost his job as a result of the hurricane rather than losing his home. But it's not actually very common. Places with hurricanes include, for example, a very large part of the United States, almost the entire area along the coast of the Atlantic Ocean and Gulf of Mexico. Now tell me how many tens of millions of people have moved out of the area entirely due to hurricanes. The population of the areas threatened by hurricanes is still massive. (It should be noted that after a temporary drop, the population of New Orleans has bounced back to previous levels now after Katrina.) > Your entire argument is based on the idea that humans can't move and build, or at least that doing so is "hard". You're completely ignoring the scale of the problem. When you talk about "humans", without a number, it's a misleading way of putting it. Again, several billion people on Earth are living in the danger zone. This is a much larger problem than any immigration or refugee crisis that currently exists or has ever existed. > When in fact putting in the hard work to move and build has been the cornerstone of human civilization for as long as human civilization has existed. Actually, no, if we were willing to put in the hard work, then we could have avoided global warming catastophe altogether. Instead, we largely ignored the problem and did nothing to stop it.
    - basil-rash 3y ago
      You seem to believe this will be some all at once mass migration of billions of people. That is not the case. In fact, the migration has already started, and will continue to progress at the rate possible. The system is working. And “avoided the climate catastrophe” is funny. Y’all would just find some different model to fast forward far beyond its applicable domain and range, then doomsay about that. Consider: what would these chronically anxious folks be doing right now if they didn’t have this to worry about? Nature abhors a vacuum, something else would fill the place. Considering all the far more severe, far more real, things every ancestor you’ve ever had would have been worrying about, we’re doing pretty well. Shame so many people’s despressive anxiety can’t accept that.
      - lapcat 3y ago
        > In fact, the migration has already started, and will continue to progress at the rate possible. The system is working. Citation needed. I just explained how the population of New Orleans has actually rebounded after Hurricane Katrina, and you're claiming, absurdly, that the migration away from coastal areas all over the world has already started. > chronically anxious folks > despressive anxiety This is baseless nonsense, armchair psychology at its worst.
        basil-rash 3y ago
        You're looking at far too small a window. The population in New Orleans peaked decades ago. https://www.macrotrends.net/cities/23082/new-orleans/population https://www.macrotrends.net/cities/23082/new-orleans/populat... > This is baseless nonsense, armchair psychology at its worst. I presume you consider your method of "take a million climate models, extrapolate them out decades beyond what we have any knowledge of, discard all the ones that aren't alarming, be alarmed at the remainder" is based armchair climatology?
        lapcat 3y ago
        > You're looking at far too small a window. The population in New Orleans peaked decades ago. The point about New Orleans was to refute your argument about Hurricanes. The population is now higher than it was before Katrina, and it's still growing. If you arbitrarily choose the peak population year, then it's currently 5% lower than the peak year, but again, the population is now growing not shrinking, and it's as high now as it was back in 1975, an even wider window than you selected. In any case, you've conveniently avoided my request for a citation that the world population is moving away from the coasts. > I presume you consider your method More baseless nonsense. I'm done here. I've already wasted too much time on your junk comments.

lapcat 3y ago

> Every second of every day, month, year, etc. they are constantly shifting. People who lives on the coasts don't have to move every second of every day, month, year, etc., due to the coasts moving. In fact, the people almost never have to move due to the coasts moving. > literally people problems Climate change is a people problem. As George Carlin joked, "There's nothing wrong with the planet. The planet is fine. The people are fucked!" > This is basic stuff. No, your comments are oversimplistic and perfunctory.

basil-rash 3y ago
> In fact, the people almost never have to move due to the coasts moving. You're misinformed. It's very common in places with hurricanes, for instance. > your comments are oversimplistic and perfunctory. Your entire argument is based on the idea that humans can't move and build, or at least that doing so is "hard". When in fact putting in the hard work to move and build has been the cornerstone of human civilization for as long as human civilization has existed. It's a very conservative view that strangely seems to be held only by liberals: "the way things were is the best way they can possibly be, all this change is no good, we have to go back to the good old days!". With of course nothing real to justify it. You inverted Chronological Snobbery, but it's still just as much as fallacy.
- lapcat 3y ago
  > You're misinformed. It's very common in places with hurricanes, for instance. No, I'm not misinformed. A good friend of mine was misplaced by Hurricane Katrina—though the problem was that he lost his job as a result of the hurricane rather than losing his home. But it's not actually very common. Places with hurricanes include, for example, a very large part of the United States, almost the entire area along the coast of the Atlantic Ocean and Gulf of Mexico. Now tell me how many tens of millions of people have moved out of the area entirely due to hurricanes. The population of the areas threatened by hurricanes is still massive. (It should be noted that after a temporary drop, the population of New Orleans has bounced back to previous levels now after Katrina.) > Your entire argument is based on the idea that humans can't move and build, or at least that doing so is "hard". You're completely ignoring the scale of the problem. When you talk about "humans", without a number, it's a misleading way of putting it. Again, several billion people on Earth are living in the danger zone. This is a much larger problem than any immigration or refugee crisis that currently exists or has ever existed. > When in fact putting in the hard work to move and build has been the cornerstone of human civilization for as long as human civilization has existed. Actually, no, if we were willing to put in the hard work, then we could have avoided global warming catastophe altogether. Instead, we largely ignored the problem and did nothing to stop it.
  - basil-rash 3y ago
    You seem to believe this will be some all at once mass migration of billions of people. That is not the case. In fact, the migration has already started, and will continue to progress at the rate possible. The system is working. And “avoided the climate catastrophe” is funny. Y’all would just find some different model to fast forward far beyond its applicable domain and range, then doomsay about that. Consider: what would these chronically anxious folks be doing right now if they didn’t have this to worry about? Nature abhors a vacuum, something else would fill the place. Considering all the far more severe, far more real, things every ancestor you’ve ever had would have been worrying about, we’re doing pretty well. Shame so many people’s despressive anxiety can’t accept that.
    - lapcat 3y ago
      > In fact, the migration has already started, and will continue to progress at the rate possible. The system is working. Citation needed. I just explained how the population of New Orleans has actually rebounded after Hurricane Katrina, and you're claiming, absurdly, that the migration away from coastal areas all over the world has already started. > chronically anxious folks > despressive anxiety This is baseless nonsense, armchair psychology at its worst.
      - basil-rash 3y ago
        You're looking at far too small a window. The population in New Orleans peaked decades ago. https://www.macrotrends.net/cities/23082/new-orleans/population https://www.macrotrends.net/cities/23082/new-orleans/populat... > This is baseless nonsense, armchair psychology at its worst. I presume you consider your method of "take a million climate models, extrapolate them out decades beyond what we have any knowledge of, discard all the ones that aren't alarming, be alarmed at the remainder" is based armchair climatology?
        lapcat 3y ago
        > You're looking at far too small a window. The population in New Orleans peaked decades ago. The point about New Orleans was to refute your argument about Hurricanes. The population is now higher than it was before Katrina, and it's still growing. If you arbitrarily choose the peak population year, then it's currently 5% lower than the peak year, but again, the population is now growing not shrinking, and it's as high now as it was back in 1975, an even wider window than you selected. In any case, you've conveniently avoided my request for a citation that the world population is moving away from the coasts. > I presume you consider your method More baseless nonsense. I'm done here. I've already wasted too much time on your junk comments.