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Please provide evidence that "so many people are starving in the US."

advael 3y ago
Here's what 10 seconds on a search engine provided from a fairly official source https://www.ers.usda.gov/webdocs/publications/107703/err-325_summary.pdf?v=3986.7 https://www.ers.usda.gov/webdocs/publications/107703/err-325... Roughly 10% of households being food insecure, defined as having inconsistent or inadequate access to food. That amounts to roughly 30 million people Social programs existing is great, but they are in their present form inadequate to make the claim that was made It's also worth pointing out that most likely "households" excludes all homeless people, which is not an insignificant portion of the population (as many people on HN - especially those living in SF - are quite aware)
- polski-g 3y ago
  That is not what I asked for. I asked for stats specifically on "starvation" -- the claim you made.
  - advael 3y ago
    Statisticians really like using dry descriptions that often border on euphemistic in their work, not unlike psychologists. I think this reads to them as more objective or serious. That said, figures I can find about how many starve to death in a year seem to hover around 10-15k, which would make up about half to a third of a percent of deaths per year (though with the COVID-19 pandemic recent numbers of total deaths are still somewhat higher than before it started) This is a pretty conservative estimator for what we might colloquially consider "starvation", because there are a lot of deaths in which severe malnutrition is a significant factor, but are not attributed to starvation as a cause of death. But even if we treat it as a perfect proxy, it's a lot more than zero. 10k people per year are just holding the perfectly adequate socialist machine we apparently already have fully operational and available to anyone who doesn't simply desire to starve, wrong
    - whimsicalism 3y ago
      The notion that 10k people are starving to death a year in the US is ridiculous. You need to stop living in ideologically driven fantasy land. Are all people in the US perfectly food secure? No. Is starvation frequent? Absolutely not. The notion that 10k people die every year from “malnutrition” is also bogus. I’m not sure where you got that number from, but it is utterly made up. I grew up in a place with very intense poverty. I know what social programs are available. Food is much, much less a problem than shelter.
      - advael 3y ago
        So the figure I got from some simple googling came from an estimate that was claimed to be based on food insecurity statistics. 10K in a country with a population of 330M is pretty low compared to much of the world. But we can probably do better https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/starvation-deaths-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/starvatio... This source cites a figure of .89 PEM deaths, which for that population stacks out to more like 3K. Still low compared to the world, but high compared to many other rich nations. Either way, not even gonna break the top ten causes of death, but the claim made was "no one has to starve" to which I am simply asking "then why is anyone starving?" Personally, I'm just looking for this information on the internet, and don't have a vested interest in a particular outcome. You, on the other hand, are arguing from incredulity and just kinda flailing at me with derisive ad-hominem invective, which doesn't fill me with confidence about your command of the facts, but does make me think you must be quite a hit at parties
        whimsicalism 3y ago
        You haven't even provided a source for the 10k number, so I'm not sure how I'm supposed to argue against it. > 10K in a country with a population of 330M is pretty low compared to much of the world. But we can probably do better I agree that would be a mostly low rate, but we aren't even close to that. There are not even 10k people dying of starvation in the US. > "no one has to starve" to which I am simply asking "then why is anyone starving?" Most of the PEM number in the US is due to people who have some sort of wasting disease in the hospital. There are also some rare cases of people starving who are elderly and suffering from severe dementia (other rare cases: people with ED who do not receive intervention soon enough). If you want to count those as starvation, sure - but even then it doesn't cover 10k. > just kinda flailing at me with derisive ad-hominem invective I called you ideologically driven after your initial content-free mocking reply. You've called my claims bizarre and said I suck at parties. I don't think that this is a case of a one-sided derisive attack. > Personally, I'm just looking for this information on the internet A few comments ago you were certain that 'so many' in the US were starving. bye

Here's what 10 seconds on a search engine provided from a fairly official source https://www.ers.usda.gov/webdocs/publications/107703/err-325_summary.pdf?v=3986.7 https://www.ers.usda.gov/webdocs/publications/107703/err-325... Roughly 10% of households being food insecure, defined as having inconsistent or inadequate access to food. That amounts to roughly 30 million people Social programs existing is great, but they are in their present form inadequate to make the claim that was made It's also worth pointing out that most likely "households" excludes all homeless people, which is not an insignificant portion of the population (as many people on HN - especially those living in SF - are quite aware)

polski-g 3y ago
That is not what I asked for. I asked for stats specifically on "starvation" -- the claim you made.
- advael 3y ago
  Statisticians really like using dry descriptions that often border on euphemistic in their work, not unlike psychologists. I think this reads to them as more objective or serious. That said, figures I can find about how many starve to death in a year seem to hover around 10-15k, which would make up about half to a third of a percent of deaths per year (though with the COVID-19 pandemic recent numbers of total deaths are still somewhat higher than before it started) This is a pretty conservative estimator for what we might colloquially consider "starvation", because there are a lot of deaths in which severe malnutrition is a significant factor, but are not attributed to starvation as a cause of death. But even if we treat it as a perfect proxy, it's a lot more than zero. 10k people per year are just holding the perfectly adequate socialist machine we apparently already have fully operational and available to anyone who doesn't simply desire to starve, wrong
  - whimsicalism 3y ago
    The notion that 10k people are starving to death a year in the US is ridiculous. You need to stop living in ideologically driven fantasy land. Are all people in the US perfectly food secure? No. Is starvation frequent? Absolutely not. The notion that 10k people die every year from “malnutrition” is also bogus. I’m not sure where you got that number from, but it is utterly made up. I grew up in a place with very intense poverty. I know what social programs are available. Food is much, much less a problem than shelter.
    - advael 3y ago
      So the figure I got from some simple googling came from an estimate that was claimed to be based on food insecurity statistics. 10K in a country with a population of 330M is pretty low compared to much of the world. But we can probably do better https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/starvation-deaths-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/starvatio... This source cites a figure of .89 PEM deaths, which for that population stacks out to more like 3K. Still low compared to the world, but high compared to many other rich nations. Either way, not even gonna break the top ten causes of death, but the claim made was "no one has to starve" to which I am simply asking "then why is anyone starving?" Personally, I'm just looking for this information on the internet, and don't have a vested interest in a particular outcome. You, on the other hand, are arguing from incredulity and just kinda flailing at me with derisive ad-hominem invective, which doesn't fill me with confidence about your command of the facts, but does make me think you must be quite a hit at parties
      - whimsicalism 3y ago
        You haven't even provided a source for the 10k number, so I'm not sure how I'm supposed to argue against it. > 10K in a country with a population of 330M is pretty low compared to much of the world. But we can probably do better I agree that would be a mostly low rate, but we aren't even close to that. There are not even 10k people dying of starvation in the US. > "no one has to starve" to which I am simply asking "then why is anyone starving?" Most of the PEM number in the US is due to people who have some sort of wasting disease in the hospital. There are also some rare cases of people starving who are elderly and suffering from severe dementia (other rare cases: people with ED who do not receive intervention soon enough). If you want to count those as starvation, sure - but even then it doesn't cover 10k. > just kinda flailing at me with derisive ad-hominem invective I called you ideologically driven after your initial content-free mocking reply. You've called my claims bizarre and said I suck at parties. I don't think that this is a case of a one-sided derisive attack. > Personally, I'm just looking for this information on the internet A few comments ago you were certain that 'so many' in the US were starving. bye