3 ms·

I've lived in cities (especially bustling downtown areas) for most of my life, and whenever I go out to somewhere quiet I get profoundly uncomfortable. For me,

I've lived in cities (especially bustling downtown areas) for most of my life, and whenever I go out to somewhere quiet I get profoundly uncomfortable. For me, the sound of the city (sirens/cars/people) is soothing in the same way being inside during a storm can be relaxing knowing that you are safe from it.

brailsafe 3y ago
I agree, but wouldn't suggest there should be extra noise created in such an absence.
- JohnMakin 3y ago
  I didn’t suggest that was just trying to provide an alternate view point to the article
  - brailsafe 3y ago
    It's an interesting alternate take to explore. While I do enjoy a bit of ambient noise, I'd be perfectly happy to see all vehicles constrained more than they are, because vehicles of all kinds reduce the physical space for casual conversation outside, and make it audibly difficult. The level of noise I'd prefer is quite a lot lower than what is usual, but not silence
lxgr 3y ago
You can very easily create the your personal noisescape of choice using speakers (at home) and headphones. The opposite is orders of magnitude more difficult and often prohibitively expensive (or impossible, when renting), especially given the poor noise proofing that most US buildings seem to have.
- JohnMakin 3y ago
  Of course this is true - my first thought is this article just makes me question its premise that noise pollution itself is inherently harmful to humans. That was the only “intent” to my post, not suggesting we should literally tolerate or promote excessive noise because my subjective experience makes it useful.
  - lxgr 3y ago
    > this article just makes me question its premise that noise pollution itself is inherently harmful to humans For all we know, it really is: It increases blood pressure [1], harms brain development [2], and causes cognitive impairment [3], just to name a few. Of course not all noise is the same, and e.g. white noise can help mask both tinnitus and other, more stress-inducing noises (e.g. loud music, people yelling on the street etc. – personally, I sleep significantly better with a white noise machine masking city noises). [1] https://www.acc.org/About-ACC/Press-Releases/2023/03/22/18/46/Road-Noise-Makes-Your-Blood-Pressure-Rise-Literally https://www.acc.org/About-ACC/Press-Releases/2023/03/22/18/4... [2] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160412022002331# https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016041202... [3] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6901841/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6901841/
    - JohnMakin 3y ago
      “for all we know” is a powerful qualifier - I don’t think any of the articles you linked show noise itself is inherently harmful. It seems like the responses to noise stimuli in some of the subjects of these these particular studies could cause harm, but nothing about noise itself. One of the articles you link mostly deals with observing sudden loud noises effects on subjects’ concentration - which is not what I am talking about. Even very loud sounds can become white noise to people if they are persistent.
      - lxgr 3y ago
        > It seems like the responses to noise stimuli in some of the subjects of these these particular studies could cause harm, but nothing about noise itself. Yes, in a similar way to how nobody dies from a fall – it's always the abrupt landing that follows. These reactions (blood pressure rising etc.) are largely involuntary, so why not prevent the cause if it's feasible?
- sidewndr46 3y ago
  Have you never had someone perform construction outside your domicile? You aren't creating a "personal noisescape" with noise that physically moves the contents of your stomach.
  - lxgr 3y ago
    Do you... enjoy construction noise!?
  - JohnMakin 3y ago
    Yes, have had this happen multiple times to varying degrees of severity in my life. as long as construction doesn’t happen inside my normal sleeping hours, it eventually blends in with the rest of the cacophony.
- hansonkd 3y ago
  > The opposite is orders of magnitude more difficult This is my main qualm about noise. I use noise canceling headphones and it is not the same as having a quiet space or having no noise. It's not that I want silence, I want to listen to the world without man made sounds. Hear the trees, listen to the birds, etc. Nothing worse than going to the park and having one person sitting alone with their sonos turned up polluting the surroundings with noise and you can't "turn it off". your only option is to mask their noise with more noise of your choice by using headphones.
  - lxgr 3y ago
    The solution is obviously to play "nature sounds" at full volume on your noise canceling headphones – while in nature! Totally agreed: I do have a lot of empathy for people playing music on a lawn in the park, but speakers on a trail etc. in nature are extremely annoying.
    - hansonkd 3y ago
      Traveling definitely made me have some empathy towards people playing music in public places. In south america my friends there would be like "wtf" if they got to a beach or park and no one was listening to music. For a lot of people music is a symbol of happiness and having fun and a lack of music makes them feel uncomfortable or even depressed. So its more so a gripe about a lack of power for us people who enjoy the peace. You can't "turn on" quiet like you can "turn on" music.

brailsafe 3y ago

I agree, but wouldn't suggest there should be extra noise created in such an absence.

JohnMakin 3y ago
I didn’t suggest that was just trying to provide an alternate view point to the article
- brailsafe 3y ago
  It's an interesting alternate take to explore. While I do enjoy a bit of ambient noise, I'd be perfectly happy to see all vehicles constrained more than they are, because vehicles of all kinds reduce the physical space for casual conversation outside, and make it audibly difficult. The level of noise I'd prefer is quite a lot lower than what is usual, but not silence

lxgr 3y ago

You can very easily create the your personal noisescape of choice using speakers (at home) and headphones. The opposite is orders of magnitude more difficult and often prohibitively expensive (or impossible, when renting), especially given the poor noise proofing that most US buildings seem to have.

JohnMakin 3y ago
Of course this is true - my first thought is this article just makes me question its premise that noise pollution itself is inherently harmful to humans. That was the only “intent” to my post, not suggesting we should literally tolerate or promote excessive noise because my subjective experience makes it useful.
- lxgr 3y ago
  > this article just makes me question its premise that noise pollution itself is inherently harmful to humans For all we know, it really is: It increases blood pressure [1], harms brain development [2], and causes cognitive impairment [3], just to name a few. Of course not all noise is the same, and e.g. white noise can help mask both tinnitus and other, more stress-inducing noises (e.g. loud music, people yelling on the street etc. – personally, I sleep significantly better with a white noise machine masking city noises). [1] https://www.acc.org/About-ACC/Press-Releases/2023/03/22/18/46/Road-Noise-Makes-Your-Blood-Pressure-Rise-Literally https://www.acc.org/About-ACC/Press-Releases/2023/03/22/18/4... [2] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160412022002331# https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016041202... [3] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6901841/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6901841/
  - JohnMakin 3y ago
    “for all we know” is a powerful qualifier - I don’t think any of the articles you linked show noise itself is inherently harmful. It seems like the responses to noise stimuli in some of the subjects of these these particular studies could cause harm, but nothing about noise itself. One of the articles you link mostly deals with observing sudden loud noises effects on subjects’ concentration - which is not what I am talking about. Even very loud sounds can become white noise to people if they are persistent.
    - lxgr 3y ago
      > It seems like the responses to noise stimuli in some of the subjects of these these particular studies could cause harm, but nothing about noise itself. Yes, in a similar way to how nobody dies from a fall – it's always the abrupt landing that follows. These reactions (blood pressure rising etc.) are largely involuntary, so why not prevent the cause if it's feasible?
sidewndr46 3y ago
Have you never had someone perform construction outside your domicile? You aren't creating a "personal noisescape" with noise that physically moves the contents of your stomach.
- lxgr 3y ago
  Do you... enjoy construction noise!?
- JohnMakin 3y ago
  Yes, have had this happen multiple times to varying degrees of severity in my life. as long as construction doesn’t happen inside my normal sleeping hours, it eventually blends in with the rest of the cacophony.
hansonkd 3y ago
> The opposite is orders of magnitude more difficult This is my main qualm about noise. I use noise canceling headphones and it is not the same as having a quiet space or having no noise. It's not that I want silence, I want to listen to the world without man made sounds. Hear the trees, listen to the birds, etc. Nothing worse than going to the park and having one person sitting alone with their sonos turned up polluting the surroundings with noise and you can't "turn it off". your only option is to mask their noise with more noise of your choice by using headphones.
- lxgr 3y ago
  The solution is obviously to play "nature sounds" at full volume on your noise canceling headphones – while in nature! Totally agreed: I do have a lot of empathy for people playing music on a lawn in the park, but speakers on a trail etc. in nature are extremely annoying.
  - hansonkd 3y ago
    Traveling definitely made me have some empathy towards people playing music in public places. In south america my friends there would be like "wtf" if they got to a beach or park and no one was listening to music. For a lot of people music is a symbol of happiness and having fun and a lack of music makes them feel uncomfortable or even depressed. So its more so a gripe about a lack of power for us people who enjoy the peace. You can't "turn on" quiet like you can "turn on" music.