3 ms·

It's hard to believe that toothbrushes run Java. There's just not enough space in them for that. Plus 3 million is a huge number.

aidenn0 3y ago
Is Java ME the smallest Java platform with ~8MB of RAM as a requirement? [edit] No, Java ME CLDC can run on devices with as little as 160kB of ROM and 8kb of RAM.
- vizzier 3y ago
  You get into "does this still really count as java" but I believe this runs in most sim cards: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Card https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Card
supportengineer 3y ago
Anyone remember the Java ring given out at JavaOne? https://www.ebay.com/itm/300495374337 https://www.ebay.com/itm/300495374337
throw-away_42 3y ago
Java in a 5x18mm device over 20 years ago: https://csrc.nist.gov/csrc/media/projects/cryptographic-module-validation-program/documents/security-policies/140sp111.pdf https://csrc.nist.gov/csrc/media/projects/cryptographic-modu...
- jeffbee 3y ago
  Not to mention java card
nicce 3y ago
Do you know the origin of Java? Fun fact, it was originally made for embedded, small electrical devices. While not exactly, small, the first Java product was remote controller with touchscreen... https://archive.org/details/Star7Demo https://archive.org/details/Star7Demo
anigbrowl 3y ago
You can run Java on an ESP32, though why you would want to is another question.
- adolph 3y ago
  Connect it to a relay to start your brew in the morning?
clwg 3y ago
At 3 million it would be the 8th largest botnet ever discovered. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botnet#Historical_list_of_botnets https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botnet#Historical_list_of_botn...
askvictor 3y ago
Most SIM cards run Java
Retr0id 3y ago
3 billion devices run java.
miki123211 3y ago
Your credit / debit card (and probably your SIM card) run Java[1]. So did most cellphones from the early 2000s[2]. I can believe that some IoT devices run chips more powerful than your average phone from 20 years ago. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Card https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Card [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Platform,_Micro_Edition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Platform,_Micro_Edition
- jcrawfordor 3y ago
  JavaCard has actually lost a lot of its popularity for ICC applications like credit cards and SIMs. It's hard to get good numbers from the industry, which tends towards secretive, but these days SELP and MULTOS seem more popular. Of course the availability of multiple OS for these devices reinforces the idea that you can run a lot of things on some very low power devices these days. At the same time, it's important to understand that JavaCard is a very constrained version of Java. Most JavaCard platforms have no support for IP networking, which would make it an unlikely source of DDoS (besides the fact that it requires relatively specialized developer tooling).
  - miki123211 3y ago
    > Most JavaCard platforms have no support for IP networking, which would make it an unlikely source of DDoS I'm not claiming that you could use a smart card for DDoS (the idea seems absurd, but somebody is probably going to prove me wrong one of these days), merely that if some version of Java runs on a smartcard, I don't find it that unimaginable for a toothbrush to have a good enough chip to run Java, perhaps with enough resources for a TCP / IP stack. Something equivalent in performance to an old, WAP-capable phone that also ran Java ME, perhaps.
c0balt 3y ago
You can, today, buy ARM chips with support for executing simple Java Bytecode directly. The Jazelle[0] earchitecture is a primary intended to accelerate JVMs[1] and is still found on some devices. There also were some other initiatives around embedded devices on the past to get Java running on smart cards and more. [0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazelle https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazelle in [1]: https://developer.arm.com/documentation/ddi0406/c/Application-Level-Architecture/Application-Level-Programmers--Model/Jazelle-direct-bytecode-execution-support?lang=en https://developer.arm.com/documentation/ddi0406/c/Applicatio...

aidenn0 3y ago

Is Java ME the smallest Java platform with ~8MB of RAM as a requirement? [edit] No, Java ME CLDC can run on devices with as little as 160kB of ROM and 8kb of RAM.

vizzier 3y ago
You get into "does this still really count as java" but I believe this runs in most sim cards: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Card https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Card

supportengineer 3y ago

Anyone remember the Java ring given out at JavaOne? https://www.ebay.com/itm/300495374337 https://www.ebay.com/itm/300495374337

throw-away_42 3y ago

Java in a 5x18mm device over 20 years ago: https://csrc.nist.gov/csrc/media/projects/cryptographic-module-validation-program/documents/security-policies/140sp111.pdf https://csrc.nist.gov/csrc/media/projects/cryptographic-modu...

jeffbee 3y ago
Not to mention java card

nicce 3y ago

Do you know the origin of Java? Fun fact, it was originally made for embedded, small electrical devices. While not exactly, small, the first Java product was remote controller with touchscreen... https://archive.org/details/Star7Demo https://archive.org/details/Star7Demo

anigbrowl 3y ago

You can run Java on an ESP32, though why you would want to is another question.

adolph 3y ago
Connect it to a relay to start your brew in the morning?

clwg 3y ago

At 3 million it would be the 8th largest botnet ever discovered. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botnet#Historical_list_of_botnets https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botnet#Historical_list_of_botn...

askvictor 3y ago

Most SIM cards run Java

Retr0id 3y ago

3 billion devices run java.

miki123211 3y ago

Your credit / debit card (and probably your SIM card) run Java[1]. So did most cellphones from the early 2000s[2]. I can believe that some IoT devices run chips more powerful than your average phone from 20 years ago. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Card https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Card [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Platform,_Micro_Edition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Platform,_Micro_Edition

jcrawfordor 3y ago
JavaCard has actually lost a lot of its popularity for ICC applications like credit cards and SIMs. It's hard to get good numbers from the industry, which tends towards secretive, but these days SELP and MULTOS seem more popular. Of course the availability of multiple OS for these devices reinforces the idea that you can run a lot of things on some very low power devices these days. At the same time, it's important to understand that JavaCard is a very constrained version of Java. Most JavaCard platforms have no support for IP networking, which would make it an unlikely source of DDoS (besides the fact that it requires relatively specialized developer tooling).
- miki123211 3y ago
  > Most JavaCard platforms have no support for IP networking, which would make it an unlikely source of DDoS I'm not claiming that you could use a smart card for DDoS (the idea seems absurd, but somebody is probably going to prove me wrong one of these days), merely that if some version of Java runs on a smartcard, I don't find it that unimaginable for a toothbrush to have a good enough chip to run Java, perhaps with enough resources for a TCP / IP stack. Something equivalent in performance to an old, WAP-capable phone that also ran Java ME, perhaps.

c0balt 3y ago

You can, today, buy ARM chips with support for executing simple Java Bytecode directly. The Jazelle[0] earchitecture is a primary intended to accelerate JVMs[1] and is still found on some devices. There also were some other initiatives around embedded devices on the past to get Java running on smart cards and more. [0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazelle https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazelle in [1]: https://developer.arm.com/documentation/ddi0406/c/Application-Level-Architecture/Application-Level-Programmers--Model/Jazelle-direct-bytecode-execution-support?lang=en https://developer.arm.com/documentation/ddi0406/c/Applicatio...