3 ms·

Not until our infatuation with constant growth is confronted. Currently all major economies focus on growth(GPD), and any sign of slowdown is essentially a doom

by mym1990 3y ago

Not until our infatuation with constant growth is confronted. Currently all major economies focus on growth(GPD), and any sign of slowdown is essentially a doomsday scenario. We have gotten massive efficiency gains in almost all labor intensive work, and while this means more goods and services can be pumped out to increase global wealth, it also means a rapid degradation of the environment.

matthewfelgate 3y ago
[flagged]
ttz 3y ago
As someone who wholeheartedly agrees with this statement, I do wonder why this mentality is so prevalent. Is it just a consequence of natural selection? Those who want to grow and compete will inevitably dominate those who do not, and so propagate more?
- mym1990 3y ago
  Yeah this question is a good one to chew on. I think ultimately humans are pretty good followers, and in my relatively short life time, I have not seen much in the way of good leadership at the global level. So we just end up following incompetent power hungry people around into their own interests(which is usually money and power).
Shocka1 3y ago
All true. As a sidenote, in the Midwest rural area I grew up in there has been an extreme amount of growth in the past few years, with just about every big tech name buying land in the area and building data centers and plants, getting decades and hundreds of millions in tax breaks in the process. Once beautiful farmland and forests have been decimated in the process. Local county politicians haven't really taken the lead, leaving townships to fend for themselves, in which it seems no-one has an idea what they are doing and constantly on their heels. There are many concerns over the environment and where the water is coming from. Stuff like this is going down with township trustees: https://www.newarkadvocate.com/story/news/local/granville/2023/11/03/granville-township-residents-petitioning-trustee-vanness-to-resign-after-land-sale-new-albany/71384922007/ https://www.newarkadvocate.com/story/news/local/granville/20... There is a lot of whining and complaining from residents, but they all gladly accept the check when the players knock on their door with that Silicon Valley money. I think the obsession with growth is ingrained in American life at this point and inevitable. I don't blame the companies for finding cheap land, water, and tax breaks. And I don't blame landowners for taking money. At this point if someone is unwilling to accept growth, they will get left behind or boxed in. However, it doesn't make the decimation of forests and farmland any less sad, and this is the part that really bothers me about the whole thing. I'm sure it's probably been shared here many times, but this is one of my favorite quotes from Tolstoy about the ideal life, which it seems is becoming a little harder to obtain the more this growth philosophy plays out. “A quiet secluded life in the country, with the possibility of being useful to people to whom it is easy to do good, and who are not accustomed to have it done to them; then work which one hopes may be of some use; then rest, nature, books, music, love for one’s neighbour — such is my idea of happiness.”
- mym1990 3y ago
  > At this point if someone is unwilling to accept growth, they will get left behind or boxed in. This really is a big crux of capitalism, there is simply no room for society to take a breather and enjoy life unless one is lucky enough to make it to retirement, and even more lucky to make it there in health. No room to reflect on new technology and inventions and decide whether we are on the right track, as a society. But chaos is inherent to big groups, so I'm not saying there is a different way forward on a planet with 8 billion people.
  - dsign 3y ago
    > I'm not saying there is a different way forward on a planet with 8 billion people. So, you are saying that the solution is make small habitats outside of Earth :-) ? I would vote for that solution, but it’s so damn unpopular.

matthewfelgate 3y ago

[flagged]

ttz 3y ago

As someone who wholeheartedly agrees with this statement, I do wonder why this mentality is so prevalent. Is it just a consequence of natural selection? Those who want to grow and compete will inevitably dominate those who do not, and so propagate more?

mym1990 3y ago
Yeah this question is a good one to chew on. I think ultimately humans are pretty good followers, and in my relatively short life time, I have not seen much in the way of good leadership at the global level. So we just end up following incompetent power hungry people around into their own interests(which is usually money and power).

Shocka1 3y ago

All true. As a sidenote, in the Midwest rural area I grew up in there has been an extreme amount of growth in the past few years, with just about every big tech name buying land in the area and building data centers and plants, getting decades and hundreds of millions in tax breaks in the process. Once beautiful farmland and forests have been decimated in the process. Local county politicians haven't really taken the lead, leaving townships to fend for themselves, in which it seems no-one has an idea what they are doing and constantly on their heels. There are many concerns over the environment and where the water is coming from. Stuff like this is going down with township trustees: https://www.newarkadvocate.com/story/news/local/granville/2023/11/03/granville-township-residents-petitioning-trustee-vanness-to-resign-after-land-sale-new-albany/71384922007/ https://www.newarkadvocate.com/story/news/local/granville/20... There is a lot of whining and complaining from residents, but they all gladly accept the check when the players knock on their door with that Silicon Valley money. I think the obsession with growth is ingrained in American life at this point and inevitable. I don't blame the companies for finding cheap land, water, and tax breaks. And I don't blame landowners for taking money. At this point if someone is unwilling to accept growth, they will get left behind or boxed in. However, it doesn't make the decimation of forests and farmland any less sad, and this is the part that really bothers me about the whole thing. I'm sure it's probably been shared here many times, but this is one of my favorite quotes from Tolstoy about the ideal life, which it seems is becoming a little harder to obtain the more this growth philosophy plays out. “A quiet secluded life in the country, with the possibility of being useful to people to whom it is easy to do good, and who are not accustomed to have it done to them; then work which one hopes may be of some use; then rest, nature, books, music, love for one’s neighbour — such is my idea of happiness.”

mym1990 3y ago
> At this point if someone is unwilling to accept growth, they will get left behind or boxed in. This really is a big crux of capitalism, there is simply no room for society to take a breather and enjoy life unless one is lucky enough to make it to retirement, and even more lucky to make it there in health. No room to reflect on new technology and inventions and decide whether we are on the right track, as a society. But chaos is inherent to big groups, so I'm not saying there is a different way forward on a planet with 8 billion people.
- dsign 3y ago
  > I'm not saying there is a different way forward on a planet with 8 billion people. So, you are saying that the solution is make small habitats outside of Earth :-) ? I would vote for that solution, but it’s so damn unpopular.