8 ms·

We talk about friction of tires on Asphalt, or engine noise. Nobody seems to do something about exhaust modification. This is big win with little effort. The lo

by aljgz 3y ago

We talk about friction of tires on Asphalt, or engine noise. Nobody seems to do something about exhaust modification. This is big win with little effort. The logarithmic scale of DB hides how serious the issue is. A 95db modified exhaust create noise that's equal to 10000 54db cars. One such vehicle passing by downtown at 3am can disrupt the sleep of thousands of people (among hundreds of thousands who are in the range, but most of them might not be that sensitive). IMHO, an exhaust modification that adds more than 10db to the factory provided one should be illegal. It's easy to think of next steps for cars that are made noisy in the factory, but it's incredible that nothing is being done about this.

wizardforhire 3y ago
It generally is illegal… but as I mentioned in the post on headlights the laws are rarely if ever enforced…
- wizardforhire 3y ago
  If one were so inclined to be civically active in the US at least, it should be possible to set up an api with local law enforcement that would be able to take in data from always on microphones such as with widely deployed door bell cameras, smart assistants and phones coupled with ai sound recognition and automatically report and triangulate offending sources of noise which would probably go a long way towards making enforcement more plausible. Over a decade ago when I first proposed this I was against its development for obvious privacy concerns. Seeing as how that ship has long sailed it seems that were long over due to have such a background system in place. I mean at this point its no worse than the litany of cameras we see already deployed by municipalities on traffic lights.
  - cuddlyogre 3y ago
    The absolute void of interest to enforce the law is the problem here, not finding offenders. I'm my area, all it would take is a cop to watch the main drag and start enforcing speed limits and state and local noise ordinances and it would stop. But they don't because they are not interested. In part because they or their children partake in the hobby of harassing people in their homes a mile and a half away. Another part is its easier to ticket people late for work because they won't run like the noise makers do.
    - roamerz 3y ago
      >The absolute void of interest to enforce the law is the problem here, not finding offenders. A couple of reasons come to mind: 1. Cops in our area are super busy handling call associated with theft, drug abuse, mental illness and homelessness that i’m not surprised they are not interested in bringing more work upon themselves by initiating contact for a relatively minor (to the above) infraction. 2. A lot of cops are into hotrods and imho the most flagrant of noise making vehicles, Harleys.
  - endymi0n 3y ago
    Interestingly, France and Germany are getting serious on this. Looking forward to see more of these. https://www-adac-de.translate.goog/verkehr/recht/verkehrsvorschriften-deutschland/laermblitzer-berlin/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp https://www-adac-de.translate.goog/verkehr/recht/verkehrsvor...
  - wongarsu 3y ago
    Or maybe we could finance some kind of scheme where law enforcement officers traverse cities, towns and countryside using a variety of transport options, primarily two- and four-wheeled motorized vehicles on a rotating basis. If we then equipped these officers with some kind of method to audibly detect abnormally loud noises, they could proactively investigate such offenses with minimal response times and take appropriate action. Of course one issue with my plan is that it depends on the cooperation of the dispatched law enforcement officers. If they were to symphonize with the people committing the noise infractions they might simply refuse to punish them.
    - 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 3y ago
      It is probably illegal, and I'd risk doxing myself, but I've considered just making a "Complain about drivers, keyed by their license plate" website. Then you can shame people publicly and treat it as a quick background check on anyone.
  - pbnjeh 3y ago
    Amongst other things, you have to define a system of calibration that will stand up in court. I've read about speeding tickets getting tossed for lack of same. That said, for all these communities surviving on / leaching off of ticket revenues, I've wondered why they haven't gone after these noise rats. Or a private entity whose business is selling equipment/systems to law enforcement. Put detectors on squad cars, and sell them a calibration setup. Pass and/or enforce some local noise ordinances, and...Ka-chinge! I've been tortured by neighborhood subwoofer dicks as well as straight pipe pricks. I'm sorry to be derogatory in tone, here, but those are the mildest words I can bring myself to use for them. A steady rush of tire noise or the like would be welcome by comparison. I too have serious privacy concerns WRT modern technology. However, seeing as that ship has sailed, stick such systems, with license plate readers, around town, and go after the violators. Triangulation, running video, and repeat logging to confirm the specific offender. In my county, ostensibly repeat offenders can escalate to having their vehicle impounded. Of course, in real life, nothing is done -- not even a ticket. People should be given a bit a time to e.g. fix a damaged exhaust. But for those who choose to inflict their noise on others? Better to ruin their lives, than let them ruin ours. (Can you tell the recent bout of warm weather had left me dealing with this in my neighborhood... :-/ Sorry for being a downer, here. But this is a real, significant stress, and one many friends share. One that is the result of another's willful, selfish choice.)
  - thefaux 3y ago
    I think having occasional law enforcement compliance checks at auto mechanics (with escalating fines for performing illegal installations) would probably be more effective at reducing the problem.
  - lxgr 3y ago
    Law enforcement actually already has something very similar in the US: Gunshot detectors. Supposedly backfiring cars can trigger them (which is another insane mod that some people apparently do intentionally these days – one of these has given me temporary hearing loss in the past...) Other than that, New York City is apparently considering the introduction of noise-activated cameras: https://abc7ny.com/new-york-city-council-traffic-laws-noise-cameras-loud-cars/14147382/ https://abc7ny.com/new-york-city-council-traffic-laws-noise-...
ericmcer 3y ago
If you want to really want to question your fellow human, check out some Reddit threads about loud exhausts. The number of people who steadfastly defend their right to drive a loud car is insane.
- tmnvix 3y ago
  Case in point from today: https://old.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/1ak06br/loud_neighbour_car/ https://old.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/1ak06br/loud_ne... "Hi all, could anyone please advise how to tackle this situation. My neighbour are good people but their sons car are very loud. There is so much base that I feel the sound on my bed in night Time. Our little one is due in 3 months. I’m worried about this situation." And one popular response: "Just the reality of people living their lives..." What I find interesting is that despite the rise of social media and the endless social-shaming that it enables, obnoxious behaviour doesn't seem to carry the same stigma that it once did. Related to this seems to be the conflation of what is legal and what is ethical (i.e. if it isn't illegal it is fine).
  - jackvalentine 3y ago
    When I was a teenager with a loud car I’d kill the engine when I turned off the main road and rolled down to my parents house to not annoy the neighbours if it was late at night. When leaving at unsocial hours i’d do the same - roll down the road until I was away from the houses and then start the car. Some people just have zero awareness or empathy for their impact on other people.
    - snarfy 3y ago
      What about the people that live near the main road?
      - jackvalentine 3y ago
        The main road was rediculously loud to begin with and there is a big difference between cruising past at 2000rpm and 70km/hr and coming down a residential street at 30km/h.
genter 3y ago
The timbre is also important. Tire and engine noise are closer to white noise, which you can tune out. An aftermarket muffler like what my jackass neighbor has is a single pitch that pierces through anything.
Swizec 3y ago
> IMHO, an exhaust modification that adds more than 10db to the factory provided one should be illegal. It's easy to think of next steps for cars that are made noisy in the factory, but it's incredible that nothing is being done about this. In Europe cars have to pass an annual technical inspection to renew their license. Every part on the car has to be homologated and they'll only homologate things that are within all safety/noise/etc regulation. My sister's ex boyfriend had to remove his modded exhaust and reinstall the stock version every year before inspection. This is clearly annoying so most people wouldn't bother. It also comes with heavy fines should he ever get pulled over for speeding or street racing. Cops love to hand out additional "illegal car mods" tickets when they're annoyed. Added bonus: This would also solve the American problem with lifted trucks and LED headlights. Unfortunately it would also make my motorcycle unregisterable (not the exhaust, other stuff like distance between indicators).
ioseph 3y ago
I just cannot wrap my head around exhaust mods. I previously rode a 600cc sports bike, I specifically chose it because it's quiet, and still the noise from the stock pipes would give you a headache without earplugs if riding for more than an hour. When I sold it the buyer mentioned the first thing they would do was an exhaust swap...
- brailsafe 3y ago
  There are few vehicles more cringe than a loud motorcycle of any kind. Kudos to you for still having fun but trying to reduce the blast radius.
  - Geezus_42 3y ago
    I've heard people justify it as a safety thing. People in cars are terrible about paying attention to motorcycles because they don't take much space. So with a loud exhaust you can get their attention and let them know you are there. I can buy it except for the people that just rec their engine for absolutely no reason.
    - jahewson 3y ago
      This is an ollllllld myth amongst bikers. #1 killer of bikers is drink-riding.
      - mcronce 3y ago
        That statistic isn't particularly relevant to people who don't drink and ride
        brailsafe 3y ago
        If you remove the deaths from drinking and riding, wouldn't it be reassuring to know the likelihood of dying isn't as high as it seemed, or even that the fake need for loud pipes is even less useful?
    - 3y ago
sirsinsalot 3y ago
For many of us with loud exhausts, the aim isn't noise... It is free flowing gasses allowing the engine to produce more power. The noise is what it is for that. That said, as a loud car driver, I can't stand people who map pops-and-bangs into their car or buy loud exhausts for loudness sake. It is lame, from an engineering standpoint. Also those of us with loud, modified, high performance cars appreciate engineering. With this comes maps and exhaust valves to allow the car to be quieter at 3am. Point is, we are not all the same. A ban would treat me as a criminal to punish the others. Isn't this something we argue is bad all the time here? Such as surveillance of everyone as if they're criminals for the sake of crime reduction? The situation with loud cars is more nuanced. Nuance is easy to ignore when something irritates or annoys you personally.
- amrocha 3y ago
  It's really not nuanced. You seem to think that other loud cars are bad but your loud car is ok but guess what, they're all the same to the people outside the car. I don't care about your performance car. Go to a racetrack if you want that. Get your loud car off public streets.
  - sirsinsalot 3y ago
    I think my loud car is OK when it isn't loud. When I switch map and close the exhaust flaps. OPs view would ban my modifications, when I respect people's desire not to hear my car. I'm saying don't tar everyone with the same brush. But sure, over simplify and catastrophise. It's clear you didn't read my whole reply but chose the pitchfork instead.
    - amrocha 3y ago
      Ok but why should a car have the ability to be a nuisance in the first place? I get that you're saying you're responsible about it but if we allow that, then people who are not responsible will also do it.
      - 3y ago

by aljgz 3y ago

wizardforhire 3y ago

It generally is illegal… but as I mentioned in the post on headlights the laws are rarely if ever enforced…

wizardforhire 3y ago
If one were so inclined to be civically active in the US at least, it should be possible to set up an api with local law enforcement that would be able to take in data from always on microphones such as with widely deployed door bell cameras, smart assistants and phones coupled with ai sound recognition and automatically report and triangulate offending sources of noise which would probably go a long way towards making enforcement more plausible. Over a decade ago when I first proposed this I was against its development for obvious privacy concerns. Seeing as how that ship has long sailed it seems that were long over due to have such a background system in place. I mean at this point its no worse than the litany of cameras we see already deployed by municipalities on traffic lights.
- cuddlyogre 3y ago
  The absolute void of interest to enforce the law is the problem here, not finding offenders. I'm my area, all it would take is a cop to watch the main drag and start enforcing speed limits and state and local noise ordinances and it would stop. But they don't because they are not interested. In part because they or their children partake in the hobby of harassing people in their homes a mile and a half away. Another part is its easier to ticket people late for work because they won't run like the noise makers do.
  - roamerz 3y ago
    >The absolute void of interest to enforce the law is the problem here, not finding offenders. A couple of reasons come to mind: 1. Cops in our area are super busy handling call associated with theft, drug abuse, mental illness and homelessness that i’m not surprised they are not interested in bringing more work upon themselves by initiating contact for a relatively minor (to the above) infraction. 2. A lot of cops are into hotrods and imho the most flagrant of noise making vehicles, Harleys.
- endymi0n 3y ago
  Interestingly, France and Germany are getting serious on this. Looking forward to see more of these. https://www-adac-de.translate.goog/verkehr/recht/verkehrsvorschriften-deutschland/laermblitzer-berlin/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp https://www-adac-de.translate.goog/verkehr/recht/verkehrsvor...
- wongarsu 3y ago
  Or maybe we could finance some kind of scheme where law enforcement officers traverse cities, towns and countryside using a variety of transport options, primarily two- and four-wheeled motorized vehicles on a rotating basis. If we then equipped these officers with some kind of method to audibly detect abnormally loud noises, they could proactively investigate such offenses with minimal response times and take appropriate action. Of course one issue with my plan is that it depends on the cooperation of the dispatched law enforcement officers. If they were to symphonize with the people committing the noise infractions they might simply refuse to punish them.
  - 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 3y ago
    It is probably illegal, and I'd risk doxing myself, but I've considered just making a "Complain about drivers, keyed by their license plate" website. Then you can shame people publicly and treat it as a quick background check on anyone.
- pbnjeh 3y ago
  Amongst other things, you have to define a system of calibration that will stand up in court. I've read about speeding tickets getting tossed for lack of same. That said, for all these communities surviving on / leaching off of ticket revenues, I've wondered why they haven't gone after these noise rats. Or a private entity whose business is selling equipment/systems to law enforcement. Put detectors on squad cars, and sell them a calibration setup. Pass and/or enforce some local noise ordinances, and...Ka-chinge! I've been tortured by neighborhood subwoofer dicks as well as straight pipe pricks. I'm sorry to be derogatory in tone, here, but those are the mildest words I can bring myself to use for them. A steady rush of tire noise or the like would be welcome by comparison. I too have serious privacy concerns WRT modern technology. However, seeing as that ship has sailed, stick such systems, with license plate readers, around town, and go after the violators. Triangulation, running video, and repeat logging to confirm the specific offender. In my county, ostensibly repeat offenders can escalate to having their vehicle impounded. Of course, in real life, nothing is done -- not even a ticket. People should be given a bit a time to e.g. fix a damaged exhaust. But for those who choose to inflict their noise on others? Better to ruin their lives, than let them ruin ours. (Can you tell the recent bout of warm weather had left me dealing with this in my neighborhood... :-/ Sorry for being a downer, here. But this is a real, significant stress, and one many friends share. One that is the result of another's willful, selfish choice.)
- thefaux 3y ago
  I think having occasional law enforcement compliance checks at auto mechanics (with escalating fines for performing illegal installations) would probably be more effective at reducing the problem.
- lxgr 3y ago
  Law enforcement actually already has something very similar in the US: Gunshot detectors. Supposedly backfiring cars can trigger them (which is another insane mod that some people apparently do intentionally these days – one of these has given me temporary hearing loss in the past...) Other than that, New York City is apparently considering the introduction of noise-activated cameras: https://abc7ny.com/new-york-city-council-traffic-laws-noise-cameras-loud-cars/14147382/ https://abc7ny.com/new-york-city-council-traffic-laws-noise-...

ericmcer 3y ago

If you want to really want to question your fellow human, check out some Reddit threads about loud exhausts. The number of people who steadfastly defend their right to drive a loud car is insane.

tmnvix 3y ago
Case in point from today: https://old.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/1ak06br/loud_neighbour_car/ https://old.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/1ak06br/loud_ne... "Hi all, could anyone please advise how to tackle this situation. My neighbour are good people but their sons car are very loud. There is so much base that I feel the sound on my bed in night Time. Our little one is due in 3 months. I’m worried about this situation." And one popular response: "Just the reality of people living their lives..." What I find interesting is that despite the rise of social media and the endless social-shaming that it enables, obnoxious behaviour doesn't seem to carry the same stigma that it once did. Related to this seems to be the conflation of what is legal and what is ethical (i.e. if it isn't illegal it is fine).
- jackvalentine 3y ago
  When I was a teenager with a loud car I’d kill the engine when I turned off the main road and rolled down to my parents house to not annoy the neighbours if it was late at night. When leaving at unsocial hours i’d do the same - roll down the road until I was away from the houses and then start the car. Some people just have zero awareness or empathy for their impact on other people.
  - snarfy 3y ago
    What about the people that live near the main road?
    - jackvalentine 3y ago
      The main road was rediculously loud to begin with and there is a big difference between cruising past at 2000rpm and 70km/hr and coming down a residential street at 30km/h.

genter 3y ago

The timbre is also important. Tire and engine noise are closer to white noise, which you can tune out. An aftermarket muffler like what my jackass neighbor has is a single pitch that pierces through anything.

Swizec 3y ago

> IMHO, an exhaust modification that adds more than 10db to the factory provided one should be illegal. It's easy to think of next steps for cars that are made noisy in the factory, but it's incredible that nothing is being done about this. In Europe cars have to pass an annual technical inspection to renew their license. Every part on the car has to be homologated and they'll only homologate things that are within all safety/noise/etc regulation. My sister's ex boyfriend had to remove his modded exhaust and reinstall the stock version every year before inspection. This is clearly annoying so most people wouldn't bother. It also comes with heavy fines should he ever get pulled over for speeding or street racing. Cops love to hand out additional "illegal car mods" tickets when they're annoyed. Added bonus: This would also solve the American problem with lifted trucks and LED headlights. Unfortunately it would also make my motorcycle unregisterable (not the exhaust, other stuff like distance between indicators).

ioseph 3y ago

I just cannot wrap my head around exhaust mods. I previously rode a 600cc sports bike, I specifically chose it because it's quiet, and still the noise from the stock pipes would give you a headache without earplugs if riding for more than an hour. When I sold it the buyer mentioned the first thing they would do was an exhaust swap...

brailsafe 3y ago
There are few vehicles more cringe than a loud motorcycle of any kind. Kudos to you for still having fun but trying to reduce the blast radius.
- Geezus_42 3y ago
  I've heard people justify it as a safety thing. People in cars are terrible about paying attention to motorcycles because they don't take much space. So with a loud exhaust you can get their attention and let them know you are there. I can buy it except for the people that just rec their engine for absolutely no reason.
  - jahewson 3y ago
    This is an ollllllld myth amongst bikers. #1 killer of bikers is drink-riding.
    - mcronce 3y ago
      That statistic isn't particularly relevant to people who don't drink and ride
      - brailsafe 3y ago
        If you remove the deaths from drinking and riding, wouldn't it be reassuring to know the likelihood of dying isn't as high as it seemed, or even that the fake need for loud pipes is even less useful?
  - 3y ago

sirsinsalot 3y ago

For many of us with loud exhausts, the aim isn't noise... It is free flowing gasses allowing the engine to produce more power. The noise is what it is for that. That said, as a loud car driver, I can't stand people who map pops-and-bangs into their car or buy loud exhausts for loudness sake. It is lame, from an engineering standpoint. Also those of us with loud, modified, high performance cars appreciate engineering. With this comes maps and exhaust valves to allow the car to be quieter at 3am. Point is, we are not all the same. A ban would treat me as a criminal to punish the others. Isn't this something we argue is bad all the time here? Such as surveillance of everyone as if they're criminals for the sake of crime reduction? The situation with loud cars is more nuanced. Nuance is easy to ignore when something irritates or annoys you personally.

amrocha 3y ago
It's really not nuanced. You seem to think that other loud cars are bad but your loud car is ok but guess what, they're all the same to the people outside the car. I don't care about your performance car. Go to a racetrack if you want that. Get your loud car off public streets.
- sirsinsalot 3y ago
  I think my loud car is OK when it isn't loud. When I switch map and close the exhaust flaps. OPs view would ban my modifications, when I respect people's desire not to hear my car. I'm saying don't tar everyone with the same brush. But sure, over simplify and catastrophise. It's clear you didn't read my whole reply but chose the pitchfork instead.
  - amrocha 3y ago
    Ok but why should a car have the ability to be a nuisance in the first place? I get that you're saying you're responsible about it but if we allow that, then people who are not responsible will also do it.
    - 3y ago