32 ms·

Chiclet Keyboard on Upcoming Thinkpad X230?

15 points by airnomad 14y ago

platzhirsch 14y ago
That is well known by now, here [1] is an article explaining the advantages of the so called chiclet keyboard (given that this is no marketing idea) Here probably a picture of the X230 [2] [1] http://blog.lenovo.com/design/thinkpad-x1-designing-the-ultimate-keyboard http://blog.lenovo.com/design/thinkpad-x1-designing-the-ulti... [2] http://images.tweaktown.com/news/2/3/23890_09_spotted_lenovo_s_ivy_bridge_powered_thinkpad_x230_ultrabook.jpg http://images.tweaktown.com/news/2/3/23890_09_spotted_lenovo...
- ericabiz 14y ago
  Unfortunately the image in the original post seems to have been taken down. Is this really the same keyboard you reference in your post? If so, I have it on the computer I'm using to type this--a Lenovo X200s from 3+ years ago. (Still waiting for Lenovo to figure out how to cram 1440x900 into a 12" screen like they did on this laptop.) I vastly prefer this keyboard to my fiance's Macbook Air. However, if the keyboard is the same as the one I have on my 3-year-old Lenovo, I'm not sure why this is "news".
  - scromar 14y ago
    The x200s does not have the keyboard in question, it has the classic thinkpad keyboard. The new keyboard is seen on some new lenovo models, most notably the thinkpad edge series.
    - ericabiz 14y ago
      I'm looking at it right now and it has both the rounded-bottom keys and the contoured keys (there's a "divot" in each key where your finger can sit comfortably.)
- dcminter 14y ago
  The Thinkpad keyboard is a significant asset. It's the primary thing that keeps me a customer (though the high build quality is also a factor). I can deal with a change in the mechanics (oh how I miss the 300 series but I adapted to that change) but mess with the layout and I'm gone. Probably to a Mac running Linux (though trackpoint might just keep me on Thinkpad/Sony/Dell for now). Edit addendum: If I were to go through the pain of adapting to a new laptop keyboard layout (maybe even abandoning the trackpoint), whose ought I to choose and why? I'm assuming that ${vendor} support a big enough range that mere technology features aren't relevant :-)
- casca 14y ago
  As a long-time Thinkpad user and keyboard fan, I'm still finding it hard to care. If anyone is looking for a working image [2]: http://images.tweaktown.com.nyud.net/news/2/3/23890_09_spotted_lenovo_s_ivy_bridge_powered_thinkpad_x230_ultrabook.jpg http://images.tweaktown.com.nyud.net/news/2/3/23890_09_spott...
gouranga 14y ago
I've already bought one in my head :)
- duck 14y ago
  Is appears the resolution is the same as the x220 at 1366x768. Are you planning on using it for dev work?
  - andrewcooke 14y ago
    i develop fine on mine. i really think this is just personal preference / acculturation - for years i also used a 17" monitor on my desktop. while i now have 1900x1200 there i don't feel more productive for it - i just don't jump between desktops like i used to (in fact, i just realised i can't remember what the keyboard shortcuts are for doing so!). in particular, with intellij idea, i feel like i have hit a sweet spot matching the layout to the screen - i have the project tree / leiningen / find window on the left, source in the middle, and run / repl / debug on the right. it works really well in the x220 window shape. that doesn't mean i don't wish the screen were bigger / squarer. i preferred my old x60 and i am very concerned about the keyboard - the keys are the best thing by far on this.
  - gouranga 14y ago
    Yes definitely. Why does it sound like you think I'm insane? I'm sitting in front of a T61 at the moment at 1280x800 and I prefer it to my 2x 22" 1600x1200 screens in the office (one of which is permanently turned off). I have VS2010, SQL2008 Mgmt studio, Word, Excel, 2 different browsers, Outlook and 3 RDP connections open. It's fine.
    - tseabrooks 14y ago
      I have a hard time working on something thats less than 2560x1440. I use a dell 30" @ 2560x1600 at the office with my macbook screen (1680x1050) as my secondary display. At home I hook the macbook up to my imac display (2560x1440) and use that with my macbook as my secondary display.
rbanffy 14y ago
I'm typing this on an Apple keyboard connected to a Macbook, sitting next to a Dell Vostro v131 and all 3 share this design trait. They are no Model M, but they are usable. I still need to find a good way to make all computers on my desk share the Microsoft Natural and the Apple trackpad, but I'm not holding my breath.
- markramige 14y ago
  Have you tried Synergy? http://synergy-foss.org/ http://synergy-foss.org/
  - VoxelBoy 14y ago
    Synergy is quite good if you can make it work reliably with your setup. When I used it with my Mac as the server and my PC as the client, I ran into a bunch of issues such as modifier keys getting (virtually) stuck. Then I switched it around and made my PC the server and my Mac the client and a different set of problems arose. Luckily, there is an active discussion group and it's open-source, so if you were really keen on making it work, you could.
- Sidnicious 14y ago
  > They are no Model M These guys own the rights to make the Model M: http://pckeyboard.com/ http://pckeyboard.com/
  - bingaling 14y ago
    And the original moulds, as I understand.
- sp332 14y ago
  Something like this? https://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10111&cs_id=1011101&p_id=2994&seq=1&format=2 https://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&... Plug your devices into a USB hub, then plug the hub into this. Then you can plug this device into both computers and switch between them with a single physical switch.
antihero 14y ago
Did anyone grab the picture?
mhb 14y ago
The original picture was removed, but here is one: http://techreport.com/discussions.x/22838 http://techreport.com/discussions.x/22838
pasbesoin 14y ago
I've been fearing this. Boo. The keyboard is one of the prime motivators for me to stay on ThinkPad. I guess if I don't beat the launch, I'll pick up a last-generation machine used -- hopefully at some discount -- and hope that it "lasts awhile". I've been asking around, including on HN, whether anyone has experience with Lenovo's chicklet keyboards and whether they've managed to reduce if not remove the suck that I've experienced with other brands' chicklet keyboards. P.S. I seem to recall seeing a story/photo implying that the T430 will have a chicklet keyboard, as well. Can anyone confirm or refute this?
- jasonkester 14y ago
  This seems to be a trend with Thinkpads. They have a tendency to remove the best features of their best models when they update to the next generation. Think of the X60 -> X220 transition. They took an amazing little road machine and squished the screen so far that it's pretty much useless for anything but playing movies. I certainly wouldn't want to see how many lines of code I could fit into 768 pixels, especially given how nice the X60/61 was with its proper 4:3 display. So here we are, six years later and I'm still buying refurbished X60s off eBay to use as my dev box on the road. If they'd put out something similar today, they'd have another $2k of my money (several times over by now, in fact).
  - pasbesoin 14y ago
    I'm on a T42 that is a secondary "learning" machine. I've thought about buying a T6★, but then figured I should just put the money towards a new machine when I next purchase. Maybe I should reconsider buying a T6★? P.S. The T42 is the first laptop keyboard I've been comfortable with in about the last 10 years. And while my particular model is underpowered in the discrete graphics department, the display is pretty darned fine to look at -- in both dimensions.
  - ericabiz 14y ago
    The X200s has a 1440x900 screen. Well worth the extra $. Still waiting for Lenovo to release a new model with a comparable or better screen (it's been 3 years...really disappointed in them at this point.) I'm still using my X200s on a daily basis.
jasonkester 14y ago
The important (and unfortunate) difference is that this new keyboard breaks apart the ins/del/home/end/pgup/pgdown block. That's a dealbreaker from a developer perspective. In fact it's the reason the new Thinkpad I just ordered is not an X1. The X1 is a nicer machine in every other respect, but it has a funky keyboard layout, so I can't use it for development without taking a big productivity hit.
benmccann 14y ago
Are there any models from other manufacturers that have a pointing stick in the middle of the keyboard?
- DArcMattr 14y ago
  Dell Latitudes have the trackpoint as well.
Slackwise 14y ago
I own a ThinkPad X120e with one of these keyboards. Unlike the MacBook keyboard, the new ThinkPad keyboard is very stiff and sturdy with no sway. It's surprising just how sturdy they feel, despite looking so weak. But the bigger selling point is, the keys have curvature. And that's important for any touch typist, and the reason I chose the X120e over every other netbook/ultrabook I tried.
- agscala 14y ago
  I've never understood the draw to this. I can type really quickly and I don't understand how curvature impacts typing performance. I thought that touch typists rely on muscle memory for spacing rather than the feel of the keys. Normally I use a Model M, but when I switch to my MBA, I don't really have any issues.

15 points by airnomad 14y ago

That is well known by now, here [1] is an article explaining the advantages of the so called chiclet keyboard (given that this is no marketing idea) Here probably a picture of the X230 [2] [1] http://blog.lenovo.com/design/thinkpad-x1-designing-the-ultimate-keyboard http://blog.lenovo.com/design/thinkpad-x1-designing-the-ulti... [2] http://images.tweaktown.com/news/2/3/23890_09_spotted_lenovo_s_ivy_bridge_powered_thinkpad_x230_ultrabook.jpg http://images.tweaktown.com/news/2/3/23890_09_spotted_lenovo...

ericabiz 14y ago
Unfortunately the image in the original post seems to have been taken down. Is this really the same keyboard you reference in your post? If so, I have it on the computer I'm using to type this--a Lenovo X200s from 3+ years ago. (Still waiting for Lenovo to figure out how to cram 1440x900 into a 12" screen like they did on this laptop.) I vastly prefer this keyboard to my fiance's Macbook Air. However, if the keyboard is the same as the one I have on my 3-year-old Lenovo, I'm not sure why this is "news".
- scromar 14y ago
  The x200s does not have the keyboard in question, it has the classic thinkpad keyboard. The new keyboard is seen on some new lenovo models, most notably the thinkpad edge series.
  - ericabiz 14y ago
    I'm looking at it right now and it has both the rounded-bottom keys and the contoured keys (there's a "divot" in each key where your finger can sit comfortably.)
dcminter 14y ago
The Thinkpad keyboard is a significant asset. It's the primary thing that keeps me a customer (though the high build quality is also a factor). I can deal with a change in the mechanics (oh how I miss the 300 series but I adapted to that change) but mess with the layout and I'm gone. Probably to a Mac running Linux (though trackpoint might just keep me on Thinkpad/Sony/Dell for now). Edit addendum: If I were to go through the pain of adapting to a new laptop keyboard layout (maybe even abandoning the trackpoint), whose ought I to choose and why? I'm assuming that ${vendor} support a big enough range that mere technology features aren't relevant :-)
casca 14y ago
As a long-time Thinkpad user and keyboard fan, I'm still finding it hard to care. If anyone is looking for a working image [2]: http://images.tweaktown.com.nyud.net/news/2/3/23890_09_spotted_lenovo_s_ivy_bridge_powered_thinkpad_x230_ultrabook.jpg http://images.tweaktown.com.nyud.net/news/2/3/23890_09_spott...

gouranga 14y ago

I've already bought one in my head :)

duck 14y ago
Is appears the resolution is the same as the x220 at 1366x768. Are you planning on using it for dev work?
- andrewcooke 14y ago
  i develop fine on mine. i really think this is just personal preference / acculturation - for years i also used a 17" monitor on my desktop. while i now have 1900x1200 there i don't feel more productive for it - i just don't jump between desktops like i used to (in fact, i just realised i can't remember what the keyboard shortcuts are for doing so!). in particular, with intellij idea, i feel like i have hit a sweet spot matching the layout to the screen - i have the project tree / leiningen / find window on the left, source in the middle, and run / repl / debug on the right. it works really well in the x220 window shape. that doesn't mean i don't wish the screen were bigger / squarer. i preferred my old x60 and i am very concerned about the keyboard - the keys are the best thing by far on this.
- gouranga 14y ago
  Yes definitely. Why does it sound like you think I'm insane? I'm sitting in front of a T61 at the moment at 1280x800 and I prefer it to my 2x 22" 1600x1200 screens in the office (one of which is permanently turned off). I have VS2010, SQL2008 Mgmt studio, Word, Excel, 2 different browsers, Outlook and 3 RDP connections open. It's fine.
  - tseabrooks 14y ago
    I have a hard time working on something thats less than 2560x1440. I use a dell 30" @ 2560x1600 at the office with my macbook screen (1680x1050) as my secondary display. At home I hook the macbook up to my imac display (2560x1440) and use that with my macbook as my secondary display.

rbanffy 14y ago

I'm typing this on an Apple keyboard connected to a Macbook, sitting next to a Dell Vostro v131 and all 3 share this design trait. They are no Model M, but they are usable. I still need to find a good way to make all computers on my desk share the Microsoft Natural and the Apple trackpad, but I'm not holding my breath.

markramige 14y ago
Have you tried Synergy? http://synergy-foss.org/ http://synergy-foss.org/
- VoxelBoy 14y ago
  Synergy is quite good if you can make it work reliably with your setup. When I used it with my Mac as the server and my PC as the client, I ran into a bunch of issues such as modifier keys getting (virtually) stuck. Then I switched it around and made my PC the server and my Mac the client and a different set of problems arose. Luckily, there is an active discussion group and it's open-source, so if you were really keen on making it work, you could.
Sidnicious 14y ago
> They are no Model M These guys own the rights to make the Model M: http://pckeyboard.com/ http://pckeyboard.com/
- bingaling 14y ago
  And the original moulds, as I understand.
sp332 14y ago
Something like this? https://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10111&cs_id=1011101&p_id=2994&seq=1&format=2 https://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&... Plug your devices into a USB hub, then plug the hub into this. Then you can plug this device into both computers and switch between them with a single physical switch.

antihero 14y ago

Did anyone grab the picture?

mhb 14y ago

The original picture was removed, but here is one: http://techreport.com/discussions.x/22838 http://techreport.com/discussions.x/22838

pasbesoin 14y ago

I've been fearing this. Boo. The keyboard is one of the prime motivators for me to stay on ThinkPad. I guess if I don't beat the launch, I'll pick up a last-generation machine used -- hopefully at some discount -- and hope that it "lasts awhile". I've been asking around, including on HN, whether anyone has experience with Lenovo's chicklet keyboards and whether they've managed to reduce if not remove the suck that I've experienced with other brands' chicklet keyboards. P.S. I seem to recall seeing a story/photo implying that the T430 will have a chicklet keyboard, as well. Can anyone confirm or refute this?

jasonkester 14y ago
This seems to be a trend with Thinkpads. They have a tendency to remove the best features of their best models when they update to the next generation. Think of the X60 -> X220 transition. They took an amazing little road machine and squished the screen so far that it's pretty much useless for anything but playing movies. I certainly wouldn't want to see how many lines of code I could fit into 768 pixels, especially given how nice the X60/61 was with its proper 4:3 display. So here we are, six years later and I'm still buying refurbished X60s off eBay to use as my dev box on the road. If they'd put out something similar today, they'd have another $2k of my money (several times over by now, in fact).
- pasbesoin 14y ago
  I'm on a T42 that is a secondary "learning" machine. I've thought about buying a T6★, but then figured I should just put the money towards a new machine when I next purchase. Maybe I should reconsider buying a T6★? P.S. The T42 is the first laptop keyboard I've been comfortable with in about the last 10 years. And while my particular model is underpowered in the discrete graphics department, the display is pretty darned fine to look at -- in both dimensions.
- ericabiz 14y ago
  The X200s has a 1440x900 screen. Well worth the extra $. Still waiting for Lenovo to release a new model with a comparable or better screen (it's been 3 years...really disappointed in them at this point.) I'm still using my X200s on a daily basis.

jasonkester 14y ago

The important (and unfortunate) difference is that this new keyboard breaks apart the ins/del/home/end/pgup/pgdown block. That's a dealbreaker from a developer perspective. In fact it's the reason the new Thinkpad I just ordered is not an X1. The X1 is a nicer machine in every other respect, but it has a funky keyboard layout, so I can't use it for development without taking a big productivity hit.

benmccann 14y ago

Are there any models from other manufacturers that have a pointing stick in the middle of the keyboard?

DArcMattr 14y ago
Dell Latitudes have the trackpoint as well.

Slackwise 14y ago

I own a ThinkPad X120e with one of these keyboards. Unlike the MacBook keyboard, the new ThinkPad keyboard is very stiff and sturdy with no sway. It's surprising just how sturdy they feel, despite looking so weak. But the bigger selling point is, the keys have curvature. And that's important for any touch typist, and the reason I chose the X120e over every other netbook/ultrabook I tried.

agscala 14y ago
I've never understood the draw to this. I can type really quickly and I don't understand how curvature impacts typing performance. I thought that touch typists rely on muscle memory for spacing rather than the feel of the keys. Normally I use a Model M, but when I switch to my MBA, I don't really have any issues.