4 ms·

I've always wondered what would happen if you read a big book (like Lord of the Rings) that was translated progressively into another language. So it starts in,

by aidos 15y ago

I've always wondered what would happen if you read a big book (like Lord of the Rings) that was translated progressively into another language. So it starts in, say, English and finishes in Spanish. At the start the sentence structure could even be in Spanish form (word ordering-wise) and words are progressively switched to Spanish as the book goes on. Probably wouldn't work at all but it'd be an interesting experiment.

perlpimp 15y ago
There is a video of Tim Ferris, where he explained that he used only a few sentences, translated to another language to get grasp of it and guide his learning. I imagine if you would know the book by heart, it would not be that useless. I suppose if the book is interactive if you can "peek" to see which words are which then it might just work!
- sj4nz 15y ago
  Tim Ferris blogged a guide to those sentences here: http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2007/11/07/how-to-learn-but-not-master-any-language-in-1-hour-plus-a-favor/ http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2007/11/07/how-to-learn...
tomjen3 15y ago
It would. Not necessarily with a book like that because fantasy tends to have way, way more difficult worlds than ordinary writings. I am not a native english speaker, but I am working my way through A song of Ice and Fire as an audio book. I can keep up with ordinary podcasts just fine, I can keep up with television shows for the most part (extremly heavy accents can be a problem) but I really, really have to listen to the words carefully. I do believe you would be better of with a book that wasn't written as well. Atlas Shrugged would be pretty awesome for this precisely because it has so many repetitions.
- robotmay 15y ago
  Hell, I'm a natural English speaker (and quite literate), and I still have to pay attention when reading Tolkien.
- aidos 15y ago
  Ha, yeah, I was just trying to think of a long book. I tried reading Harry Potter in Portuguese once upon a time - quickly learnt that fantasy novels are a hard way to learn a language.
  - tomjen3 15y ago
    The only thing you could choose that is worse would be Shakespeare. I did read one of his stories, but only because I got edition where I could look up almost all the words in a little handy dictionary in the back.
ColinWright 15y ago
I had that idea several years ago. A few years ago I hacked about and produced a story that progressively converted from English to Spanish, starting off with single words, then small phrases, then longer phrases, then full sentences. It used a mish-mash of Google translate and the same work but properly translated. It worked remarkably well, but I lost it all in a disk crash and never did it again. I wonder how much of it stuck because I did the meta-work, and how well the actual resulting "book" would've worked. Related: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3921773 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3921773
jamesjyu 15y ago
Check out this Chrome extension that does exactly this, except for when you're surfing sites: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/bedbecnakfcpmkpddjfnfihogkaggkhl https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/bedbecnakfcpmkpddj... You can specify the level of immersion, and it uses Google Translate to swap out a certain percentage of words with the target language you're trying to learn. You can then hover over them to see the translation.
- aidos 15y ago
  Oh my word. I've just installed the extension. That's absolutely marvellous. Nice implementation. And actually, it's similar to my idea except that instead of the large work being a book it's the entire internet! Edit: On closer inspection - it doesn't really work that well because it's too much of a scattergun approach. You really want the words to be swapped out progressively. (Probably starting with the most common - articles etc)
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
melling 15y ago
A nice variation would be to practice the words for each chapter until you learn them then read it. You'd highlight the words you've learned. Words start to get repetitive from chapter to chapter so you'll only add the new words. I created a spreadsheet of words for Harry Potter and Around the World in 80 Days in Spanish. I'd like to do something like this in my iOS app. I'll have to look for some of the classics that are in the public domain. Of course, the translations need to be in the public domain too.

by aidos 15y ago

perlpimp 15y ago

There is a video of Tim Ferris, where he explained that he used only a few sentences, translated to another language to get grasp of it and guide his learning. I imagine if you would know the book by heart, it would not be that useless. I suppose if the book is interactive if you can "peek" to see which words are which then it might just work!

sj4nz 15y ago
Tim Ferris blogged a guide to those sentences here: http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2007/11/07/how-to-learn-but-not-master-any-language-in-1-hour-plus-a-favor/ http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2007/11/07/how-to-learn...

tomjen3 15y ago

It would. Not necessarily with a book like that because fantasy tends to have way, way more difficult worlds than ordinary writings. I am not a native english speaker, but I am working my way through A song of Ice and Fire as an audio book. I can keep up with ordinary podcasts just fine, I can keep up with television shows for the most part (extremly heavy accents can be a problem) but I really, really have to listen to the words carefully. I do believe you would be better of with a book that wasn't written as well. Atlas Shrugged would be pretty awesome for this precisely because it has so many repetitions.

robotmay 15y ago
Hell, I'm a natural English speaker (and quite literate), and I still have to pay attention when reading Tolkien.
aidos 15y ago
Ha, yeah, I was just trying to think of a long book. I tried reading Harry Potter in Portuguese once upon a time - quickly learnt that fantasy novels are a hard way to learn a language.
- tomjen3 15y ago
  The only thing you could choose that is worse would be Shakespeare. I did read one of his stories, but only because I got edition where I could look up almost all the words in a little handy dictionary in the back.

ColinWright 15y ago

I had that idea several years ago. A few years ago I hacked about and produced a story that progressively converted from English to Spanish, starting off with single words, then small phrases, then longer phrases, then full sentences. It used a mish-mash of Google translate and the same work but properly translated. It worked remarkably well, but I lost it all in a disk crash and never did it again. I wonder how much of it stuck because I did the meta-work, and how well the actual resulting "book" would've worked. Related: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3921773 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3921773

jamesjyu 15y ago

Check out this Chrome extension that does exactly this, except for when you're surfing sites: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/bedbecnakfcpmkpddjfnfihogkaggkhl https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/bedbecnakfcpmkpddj... You can specify the level of immersion, and it uses Google Translate to swap out a certain percentage of words with the target language you're trying to learn. You can then hover over them to see the translation.

aidos 15y ago
Oh my word. I've just installed the extension. That's absolutely marvellous. Nice implementation. And actually, it's similar to my idea except that instead of the large work being a book it's the entire internet! Edit: On closer inspection - it doesn't really work that well because it's too much of a scattergun approach. You really want the words to be swapped out progressively. (Probably starting with the most common - articles etc)
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]

melling 15y ago

A nice variation would be to practice the words for each chapter until you learn them then read it. You'd highlight the words you've learned. Words start to get repetitive from chapter to chapter so you'll only add the new words. I created a spreadsheet of words for Harry Potter and Around the World in 80 Days in Spanish. I'd like to do something like this in my iOS app. I'll have to look for some of the classics that are in the public domain. Of course, the translations need to be in the public domain too.