4 ms·

HSBC funneled $1B (that we know about) for cartels, it came out as 100% knowingly committed, and no one went to jail. Basically the government asked for their c

HSBC funneled $1B (that we know about) for cartels, it came out as 100% knowingly committed, and no one went to jail. Basically the government asked for their cut. Why wouldn't do they this again and again? They are above the law, they are the law.

soco 3y ago
Credit Suisse finally sunk because of such business and more, so there is (very very little, I know) hope.
realusername 3y ago
It's HSBC being HSBC, I can't say that I'm surprised. Drug cartels and money laundering are at the core of their brand value.
- eYrKEC2 3y ago
  Hopefully Canadian citizens are the "lender of last resort", just like we Americans are the "lender of last resort". The bankers must be made whole -- nothing else matters.
- thriftwy 3y ago
  "The reason we can say space pirates does not exist is that HSBC does not have a subdivision dedicated to catering to such clients"
- opportune 3y ago
  Ignorant American here. Isn’t Hong Kong supposed to be the HQ/money exit point for Chinese organized crime? And HSBC is the main bank there, but headquartered in the UK? If I had to guess they are heavily involved with spooks and foreign assets operating in China (and if so, why not use them for non-Chinese intelligence-financial shenanigans?) and a lot of their “illegal” activity is unofficially blessed by foreign intelligence.
  - realusername 3y ago
    From their past history I'd say they are in global organized crime, regardless of the country.
mikeyouse 3y ago
"The government asked for their cut" actually means that for laundering that $881 million in cartel money - they were fined $1.9 billion and then had to pay an additional $665 million in other civil penalties. They wouldn't do it again and again because they don't earn $880 million when accepting $880 million in dirty money - remember that bank deposits are liabilities to the bank - they only earn money from interest on that -- and it cost them billions in fines to do so...
- jszymborski 3y ago
  Also, HSBC is selling off all of its consumer banking in Canada largely as a result of the gov't fines and tattered reputation among Canadians.
  - denton-scratch 3y ago
    > tattered reputation among Canadians Hardly just Canadians; I first started hearing tales of huge HSBC corruption 20 years ago. FTR: I bank with First Direct, which is an online banking service of HSBC in the UK.
- Teever 3y ago
  Is that enough though? It seems pretty clear that putting people who commit crimes in jail definitely reduces their chances of commuting crime at least while they're in jail. White collar crime is the root of all evil in our society and we should be putting white collar criminals in jail.
- user3939382 3y ago
  I'd be very surprised if the $880M was the extent of the crime. The government not jailing anyone involved in the scheme is completely inexcusable and in my view makes the government complicit in the crime, in which case my trust that the public information about this case is accurate is 0.
  - mikeyouse 3y ago
    The "scheme" was bank tellers in Mexico, working for a recently acquired local bank, accepting boxes full of cash and lying about the origin. HSBC was fined for looking the other way and having shitty controls about suspect funds -- their AML teams were understaffed and they didn't do any real due diligence on the Mexican banking firm they had purchased. The entire executive team was forced out, they clawed back bonuses for everyone in the chain who profited off the shitty controls. So who would you jail in this case? The bank tellers interfacing with cartel? They're in Mexico anyway. Some overworked compliance manager in the US who ignored the suspicious transactions? Some C-Level exec person who didn't know about the suspicious origin of a billion dollars into a bank with something like 2.5 trillion in assets? What specific crime do you think they committed? Nobody likes these global banks, they're run by absolute psychopaths but remember, the optimal amount of fraud is non-zero. All of the mirror image complaints about banks not wanting to touch Crypto or proceeds from gambling/porn sites is downstream from settlements like these. https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/optimal-amount-of-fraud/ https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/optimal-amount-of-fra...

soco 3y ago

Credit Suisse finally sunk because of such business and more, so there is (very very little, I know) hope.

realusername 3y ago

It's HSBC being HSBC, I can't say that I'm surprised. Drug cartels and money laundering are at the core of their brand value.

eYrKEC2 3y ago
Hopefully Canadian citizens are the "lender of last resort", just like we Americans are the "lender of last resort". The bankers must be made whole -- nothing else matters.
thriftwy 3y ago
"The reason we can say space pirates does not exist is that HSBC does not have a subdivision dedicated to catering to such clients"
opportune 3y ago
Ignorant American here. Isn’t Hong Kong supposed to be the HQ/money exit point for Chinese organized crime? And HSBC is the main bank there, but headquartered in the UK? If I had to guess they are heavily involved with spooks and foreign assets operating in China (and if so, why not use them for non-Chinese intelligence-financial shenanigans?) and a lot of their “illegal” activity is unofficially blessed by foreign intelligence.
- realusername 3y ago
  From their past history I'd say they are in global organized crime, regardless of the country.

mikeyouse 3y ago

"The government asked for their cut" actually means that for laundering that $881 million in cartel money - they were fined $1.9 billion and then had to pay an additional $665 million in other civil penalties. They wouldn't do it again and again because they don't earn $880 million when accepting $880 million in dirty money - remember that bank deposits are liabilities to the bank - they only earn money from interest on that -- and it cost them billions in fines to do so...

jszymborski 3y ago
Also, HSBC is selling off all of its consumer banking in Canada largely as a result of the gov't fines and tattered reputation among Canadians.
- denton-scratch 3y ago
  > tattered reputation among Canadians Hardly just Canadians; I first started hearing tales of huge HSBC corruption 20 years ago. FTR: I bank with First Direct, which is an online banking service of HSBC in the UK.
Teever 3y ago
Is that enough though? It seems pretty clear that putting people who commit crimes in jail definitely reduces their chances of commuting crime at least while they're in jail. White collar crime is the root of all evil in our society and we should be putting white collar criminals in jail.
user3939382 3y ago
I'd be very surprised if the $880M was the extent of the crime. The government not jailing anyone involved in the scheme is completely inexcusable and in my view makes the government complicit in the crime, in which case my trust that the public information about this case is accurate is 0.
- mikeyouse 3y ago
  The "scheme" was bank tellers in Mexico, working for a recently acquired local bank, accepting boxes full of cash and lying about the origin. HSBC was fined for looking the other way and having shitty controls about suspect funds -- their AML teams were understaffed and they didn't do any real due diligence on the Mexican banking firm they had purchased. The entire executive team was forced out, they clawed back bonuses for everyone in the chain who profited off the shitty controls. So who would you jail in this case? The bank tellers interfacing with cartel? They're in Mexico anyway. Some overworked compliance manager in the US who ignored the suspicious transactions? Some C-Level exec person who didn't know about the suspicious origin of a billion dollars into a bank with something like 2.5 trillion in assets? What specific crime do you think they committed? Nobody likes these global banks, they're run by absolute psychopaths but remember, the optimal amount of fraud is non-zero. All of the mirror image complaints about banks not wanting to touch Crypto or proceeds from gambling/porn sites is downstream from settlements like these. https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/optimal-amount-of-fraud/ https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/optimal-amount-of-fra...