4 ms·

Divorce hits men harder financially than women: economists

28 points by samspenc 3y ago

josefresco 3y ago
> women divorcing on their 65th birthday seeing an average income decline of almost 60pc That's a pretty drastic drop, with no explanation (in this article) > Mr Vandenbroucke said it was not possible to draw conclusions about why the decline in male earnings was so marked after a divorce. So we don't know much it seems.
- throwaway09223 3y ago
  > That's a pretty drastic drop, with no explanation (in this article) It's because spousal support terminates at 65. At that point both parties are presumed retired and can't be compelled to work. > Mr Vandenbroucke said it was not possible to draw conclusions It's very possible. The spousal/child support system is grossly unfair. I have seen support awards at 300% of the family's income.
  - bbreier 3y ago
    The article explicitly states that the drop is in income, and does not take spousal or child support into account
    - ethanbond 3y ago
      Yeah if anything this would indicate that wives are providing much more lift to their husbands' careers than vice versa.
      - s1artibartfast 3y ago
        That is one possibility among many. It is also possible they were taking on more work than they would like.
        ethanbond 3y ago
        That's another good hypothesis! Just goes to show how correct the author was in stating that it's very hard to interpret.
        s1artibartfast 3y ago
        Indeed. If you follow that line of thinking, there's probably lots of both men and women that struggled to support their partner before divorce, and are relieved of that burden after divorce. You could easily see effects from this on both side at the same time. All it would take is for the primary earner income to go down, and for the low or no income partners earnings to remain the same. This results in a net reduction in income for both genders.
      - sottol 3y ago
        Or the payer of support finds ways to "hide" income or they put in less effort and earn less knowing that some of it goes towards child/spousal support.
        ethanbond 3y ago
        That's an interesting hypothesis too!
        snapplebobapple 3y ago
        Thats probably more accurate. I knowi work a lot less now than i did a decade ago because i have built up a nest egg and there is no point incrementally destroying my health, work life balance, etc. When the greasy government is taking half. The incremental value is not there vs non taxed uses of my time like raising my children.
    - throwaway09223 3y ago
      It is a factor, even if not taken into account in their analysis. At 64, someone might be compelled by the court to work. This can't happen at 65+ 65 is retirement. Everyone's income drops around this time.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- awb 3y ago
  There are theories: > One possibility is these individuals change their work patterns: Either they work fewer hours or they work different, lower-paying jobs. > Depression is associated with divorce. So you might be slightly more likely to lose your job after a divorce > women may become single mothers after divorce which impacts their earning ability and their ability to progress in their work or career trajectories
- kazinator 3y ago
  Could be that the divorce and reduced income are linked? I.e. the divorce is related to the man's declined earnings.
  - readthenotes1 3y ago
    The way child support works in my country, it is assumed the man will lay the mom and become a visiting dad (regular but infrequent contact with children) and the money given to the mom is supposed to provide for the children. So possibly: -maybe infrequent parenting is more than the dad was doing and so they must work less -the dad may choose to chase money less as he is no longer supporting the wife and children as they used to -depression and bitterness may make the dad less employable -job changes influenced by first, third, and fifth weekend parenting requirements may dictate job change (e.g., no longer spending a few months on seagoing vessel, cross continent trucking, etc.) -since child support is linked to income, also a spiteful send off to the ex
    - kazinator 3y ago
      "lay the mom" is a slang for having sex; did you mean something else?
      - readthenotes1 3y ago
        Wow. Voice to text fail towards humor. I can't edit, put it should be "pay"
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
SebFender 3y ago
Getting married is a social construct that absolutely creates no value in the end. Find a partner and do as you will.
- snapplebobapple 3y ago
  Thats not true. It creates tons of value if it is structured to produce children and doesnt incentivize divorce like the current system does. No party to a marriage should be flat or better off after a divorce and that is often not true for the lower earning spouse often providing childcare right now. They can often keep the house, collect almoat the same cash and not have to deal with the higher income spouse anymore right now. Its a recipe to not work things out and for divorce to be overwhelming innitiated by the lower income partner.

28 points by samspenc 3y ago

> women divorcing on their 65th birthday seeing an average income decline of almost 60pc That's a pretty drastic drop, with no explanation (in this article) > Mr Vandenbroucke said it was not possible to draw conclusions about why the decline in male earnings was so marked after a divorce. So we don't know much it seems.

throwaway09223 3y ago
> That's a pretty drastic drop, with no explanation (in this article) It's because spousal support terminates at 65. At that point both parties are presumed retired and can't be compelled to work. > Mr Vandenbroucke said it was not possible to draw conclusions It's very possible. The spousal/child support system is grossly unfair. I have seen support awards at 300% of the family's income.
- bbreier 3y ago
  The article explicitly states that the drop is in income, and does not take spousal or child support into account
  - ethanbond 3y ago
    Yeah if anything this would indicate that wives are providing much more lift to their husbands' careers than vice versa.
    - s1artibartfast 3y ago
      That is one possibility among many. It is also possible they were taking on more work than they would like.
      - ethanbond 3y ago
        That's another good hypothesis! Just goes to show how correct the author was in stating that it's very hard to interpret.
        s1artibartfast 3y ago
        Indeed. If you follow that line of thinking, there's probably lots of both men and women that struggled to support their partner before divorce, and are relieved of that burden after divorce. You could easily see effects from this on both side at the same time. All it would take is for the primary earner income to go down, and for the low or no income partners earnings to remain the same. This results in a net reduction in income for both genders.
    - sottol 3y ago
      Or the payer of support finds ways to "hide" income or they put in less effort and earn less knowing that some of it goes towards child/spousal support.
      - ethanbond 3y ago
        That's an interesting hypothesis too!
        snapplebobapple 3y ago
        Thats probably more accurate. I knowi work a lot less now than i did a decade ago because i have built up a nest egg and there is no point incrementally destroying my health, work life balance, etc. When the greasy government is taking half. The incremental value is not there vs non taxed uses of my time like raising my children.
  - throwaway09223 3y ago
    It is a factor, even if not taken into account in their analysis. At 64, someone might be compelled by the court to work. This can't happen at 65+ 65 is retirement. Everyone's income drops around this time.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
awb 3y ago
There are theories: > One possibility is these individuals change their work patterns: Either they work fewer hours or they work different, lower-paying jobs. > Depression is associated with divorce. So you might be slightly more likely to lose your job after a divorce > women may become single mothers after divorce which impacts their earning ability and their ability to progress in their work or career trajectories
kazinator 3y ago
Could be that the divorce and reduced income are linked? I.e. the divorce is related to the man's declined earnings.
- readthenotes1 3y ago
  The way child support works in my country, it is assumed the man will lay the mom and become a visiting dad (regular but infrequent contact with children) and the money given to the mom is supposed to provide for the children. So possibly: -maybe infrequent parenting is more than the dad was doing and so they must work less -the dad may choose to chase money less as he is no longer supporting the wife and children as they used to -depression and bitterness may make the dad less employable -job changes influenced by first, third, and fifth weekend parenting requirements may dictate job change (e.g., no longer spending a few months on seagoing vessel, cross continent trucking, etc.) -since child support is linked to income, also a spiteful send off to the ex
  - kazinator 3y ago
    "lay the mom" is a slang for having sex; did you mean something else?
    - readthenotes1 3y ago
      Wow. Voice to text fail towards humor. I can't edit, put it should be "pay"
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]

SebFender 3y ago

Getting married is a social construct that absolutely creates no value in the end. Find a partner and do as you will.

snapplebobapple 3y ago
Thats not true. It creates tons of value if it is structured to produce children and doesnt incentivize divorce like the current system does. No party to a marriage should be flat or better off after a divorce and that is often not true for the lower earning spouse often providing childcare right now. They can often keep the house, collect almoat the same cash and not have to deal with the higher income spouse anymore right now. Its a recipe to not work things out and for divorce to be overwhelming innitiated by the lower income partner.