4 ms·

So the study is actually called "Development of an anxiety disorder following an emergency department visit due to cannabis use" and you can check it out here:

So the study is actually called "Development of an anxiety disorder following an emergency department visit due to cannabis use" and you can check it out here: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(24)00034-8/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5... The study isn't establishing a direct link between cannabis and anxiety, it's looking very specifically at anxiety diagnoses following an ER visit. The findings are interpreted in the study as the following: "ED visits for cannabis use were associated with an increased risk of having an incident healthcare visit for an anxiety disorder, particularly in young males." What exactly that means on the broader context of cannabis use isn't the focus of the study, but it invites further research to explore the implications of their findings.

throwaway09223 3y ago
Going to an ER after taking cannabis seems like something only someone with an existing anxiety disorder might do. A more accurate headline might read: People with anxiety disorders who take cannabis may unnecessarily visit the ER.
- throwanem 3y ago
  > Going to an ER after taking cannabis seems like something only someone with an existing anxiety disorder might do. Twenty or thirty years ago, I'd have agreed with you on this, but potency that's normal today wouldn't even have been a dream back then. If you think that makes no difference, I'm here to tell you you are wrong.
  - hirvi74 3y ago
    I constantly see this, but haven't people been making concentrates for 1000s of years? I imagine ancient Nepali hash would probably rock a lot of people's world still to this day.
    - supertofu 3y ago
      Sure, but Nepali hash was being taken in a much different cultural context (religious, often) by people who were generally very prepared for its consequences.
  - saiya-jin 3y ago
    You both are correct, I've seen it countless times. Folks sometimes don't admit even to themselves how insecure and anxious they are. And THC will highlight that, sometimes a bit, sometimes massively. Same with alcohol, other drugs, intense stressful situations and so on. If you are not anxious, this is no story, this won't bulge even after decades of copious consumption (some very close folks fall here and only here, no exception ever heard of). Now if you are completely clueless or just a (again clueless) kid and say eat 5 space cakes to show off, yeah this will not be a nice story. 5-10 hours of catatonic despair will leave some mark, but this id self-inflicted harm due to stupidity, many wonderful harms and deaths have been caused by very same thing and if we want bans due to that, alcohol should be the first in line by huge margin. Educate from childhood, regulate (age, potency, how much daily, optimize for harmless consumption of quality products without impurities), but otherwise let folks do their thing. Anything else leads long term to worse results for whole society, any gut feeling is easily beaten by long term statistics.
    - bowsamic 3y ago
      My father in law gets super paranoid and anxious on weed and LSD but he will never admit it because he wants people to believe that he's completely chill
      - ngai_aku 3y ago
        Man, I wish my father-in-law was using LSD with me!
    - throwanem 3y ago
      Oh, it's nothing anyone can't get through with a little help from someone who can take a broader perspective. That's a lot harder to come by these days than should be, or at least than is healthy for primates as social as we. Stronger communities would yield fewer such ER visits, too. I don't advocate a ban; Prohibition is a salutary example and it would be worse today for all involved. But I also don't like to see anyone talk about any drug, and certainly not this one, as entirely benign.
hinkley 3y ago
I know a family with some sort of genetic disposition to anxiety disorders. Every generation up until recent times had at least one functioning alcoholic in it. The second to last was the beloved family matriarch, not the black sheep. Trying to drown out the maelstrom. It’s called self medication, and people have a sense of when something is wrong with them without a doctor telling them (or for that matter, believing them). Neurodivergent people know this especially well, since “all in your head” was the ultimate dismissal of medical complaints up until the last decade. Might as well study hospitalizations for stimulants and tendency to impulsiveness and intrusive thoughts. People with ADHD have been self-medicating with stimulants since the trade routes brought tea and coffee ( and probably with beer and wine before that). I maintain that the original motto for Coca Cola (with real coca leaves) was a nod to high functioning ADHD customers. The Thinking Man’s Drink. Most measurable gains in cognitive ability from mild stimulants are enjoyed by the neurodivergent. But if we are 10% of the human population, that’s a demographic even Apple could love.
- samatman 3y ago
  This begs the question, which is whether self-medication with cannabis makes anxiety worse, rather than better, for most people who try it. It might, or it might not, establishing to what degree the correlation is causal is fairly important.
  - Schnitz 3y ago
    I'd guess that it makes it better at first, worse in the long run. Depression and anxiety are known Cannabis withdrawal symptoms, so it seems like drinking to cure a hangover. There's a great Huberman episode on Canabis/THC.
    - hirvi74 3y ago
      > Huberman episode on Canabis/THC. You mean the same episode where he claimed that something like 25% of pregnant mothers use Cannabis without providing any sources? I'm not saying Huberman has to be right about everything, but I think he just cherrypicks too many studies, sometimes overestimates the value of animal research, and, once in a blue moon, just completely makes up stats to fit his narrative. His on wikipedia page even says, > Huberman has promoted anti-sunscreen views on his podcast, saying he's "as scared of sunscreen as I am of melanoma", and claiming that sunscreen molecules can be found in neurons 10 years after application; without providing any evidence. I think his intentions are good, but I sometimes question his intentions when he never fails to mention that you can also use the code Huberman to get 25% off your first order of Athletic Greens.
robocat 3y ago
Finding causality is hard and this study has so many hidden confounders that even implying causality from weed to anxiety disorder is bullshit. Anecdotally, the only people I know that ended up in ED due to weed either took it unknowingly or have Cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome from heavy heavy usage. Surely someone with a tendency for anxiety is more likely to seek medical help. I know cannabis smokers who have anxiety issues, but it isn't obvious whether their tendency for anxiety leads them to smoking. I'm ignoring temporary anxiety. Disclosure: not a pot smoker.
TylerE 3y ago
The problem I have with studies like this is that the implied scoping really distorts any conclusions that could be drawn. People who don't go to the doctor - by definition - don't get diagnosed with anything.

throwaway09223 3y ago

Going to an ER after taking cannabis seems like something only someone with an existing anxiety disorder might do. A more accurate headline might read: People with anxiety disorders who take cannabis may unnecessarily visit the ER.

throwanem 3y ago
> Going to an ER after taking cannabis seems like something only someone with an existing anxiety disorder might do. Twenty or thirty years ago, I'd have agreed with you on this, but potency that's normal today wouldn't even have been a dream back then. If you think that makes no difference, I'm here to tell you you are wrong.
- hirvi74 3y ago
  I constantly see this, but haven't people been making concentrates for 1000s of years? I imagine ancient Nepali hash would probably rock a lot of people's world still to this day.
  - supertofu 3y ago
    Sure, but Nepali hash was being taken in a much different cultural context (religious, often) by people who were generally very prepared for its consequences.
- saiya-jin 3y ago
  You both are correct, I've seen it countless times. Folks sometimes don't admit even to themselves how insecure and anxious they are. And THC will highlight that, sometimes a bit, sometimes massively. Same with alcohol, other drugs, intense stressful situations and so on. If you are not anxious, this is no story, this won't bulge even after decades of copious consumption (some very close folks fall here and only here, no exception ever heard of). Now if you are completely clueless or just a (again clueless) kid and say eat 5 space cakes to show off, yeah this will not be a nice story. 5-10 hours of catatonic despair will leave some mark, but this id self-inflicted harm due to stupidity, many wonderful harms and deaths have been caused by very same thing and if we want bans due to that, alcohol should be the first in line by huge margin. Educate from childhood, regulate (age, potency, how much daily, optimize for harmless consumption of quality products without impurities), but otherwise let folks do their thing. Anything else leads long term to worse results for whole society, any gut feeling is easily beaten by long term statistics.
  - bowsamic 3y ago
    My father in law gets super paranoid and anxious on weed and LSD but he will never admit it because he wants people to believe that he's completely chill
    - ngai_aku 3y ago
      Man, I wish my father-in-law was using LSD with me!
  - throwanem 3y ago
    Oh, it's nothing anyone can't get through with a little help from someone who can take a broader perspective. That's a lot harder to come by these days than should be, or at least than is healthy for primates as social as we. Stronger communities would yield fewer such ER visits, too. I don't advocate a ban; Prohibition is a salutary example and it would be worse today for all involved. But I also don't like to see anyone talk about any drug, and certainly not this one, as entirely benign.

hinkley 3y ago

I know a family with some sort of genetic disposition to anxiety disorders. Every generation up until recent times had at least one functioning alcoholic in it. The second to last was the beloved family matriarch, not the black sheep. Trying to drown out the maelstrom. It’s called self medication, and people have a sense of when something is wrong with them without a doctor telling them (or for that matter, believing them). Neurodivergent people know this especially well, since “all in your head” was the ultimate dismissal of medical complaints up until the last decade. Might as well study hospitalizations for stimulants and tendency to impulsiveness and intrusive thoughts. People with ADHD have been self-medicating with stimulants since the trade routes brought tea and coffee ( and probably with beer and wine before that). I maintain that the original motto for Coca Cola (with real coca leaves) was a nod to high functioning ADHD customers. The Thinking Man’s Drink. Most measurable gains in cognitive ability from mild stimulants are enjoyed by the neurodivergent. But if we are 10% of the human population, that’s a demographic even Apple could love.

samatman 3y ago
This begs the question, which is whether self-medication with cannabis makes anxiety worse, rather than better, for most people who try it. It might, or it might not, establishing to what degree the correlation is causal is fairly important.
- Schnitz 3y ago
  I'd guess that it makes it better at first, worse in the long run. Depression and anxiety are known Cannabis withdrawal symptoms, so it seems like drinking to cure a hangover. There's a great Huberman episode on Canabis/THC.
  - hirvi74 3y ago
    > Huberman episode on Canabis/THC. You mean the same episode where he claimed that something like 25% of pregnant mothers use Cannabis without providing any sources? I'm not saying Huberman has to be right about everything, but I think he just cherrypicks too many studies, sometimes overestimates the value of animal research, and, once in a blue moon, just completely makes up stats to fit his narrative. His on wikipedia page even says, > Huberman has promoted anti-sunscreen views on his podcast, saying he's "as scared of sunscreen as I am of melanoma", and claiming that sunscreen molecules can be found in neurons 10 years after application; without providing any evidence. I think his intentions are good, but I sometimes question his intentions when he never fails to mention that you can also use the code Huberman to get 25% off your first order of Athletic Greens.

robocat 3y ago

Finding causality is hard and this study has so many hidden confounders that even implying causality from weed to anxiety disorder is bullshit. Anecdotally, the only people I know that ended up in ED due to weed either took it unknowingly or have Cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome from heavy heavy usage. Surely someone with a tendency for anxiety is more likely to seek medical help. I know cannabis smokers who have anxiety issues, but it isn't obvious whether their tendency for anxiety leads them to smoking. I'm ignoring temporary anxiety. Disclosure: not a pot smoker.

TylerE 3y ago

The problem I have with studies like this is that the implied scoping really distorts any conclusions that could be drawn. People who don't go to the doctor - by definition - don't get diagnosed with anything.