4 ms·

It isn't mutually exclusive. Warming is a major cause of increased wildfires, and poor land use and overgrowth due to fire suppression make it worse.

by mjhay 3y ago

graemep 3y ago
The point is that the focus on global warming means no one will do anything about poor land management because that problem is not made public. You can see what happens right here in the downvotes I have got. Just because I shift blame for something away from global warming to another cause, people feel they most downvote me. Global warming is to blame in their minds is equivalent to no other cause can be blamed. I partly made that comment to see how much a rational and reasonable comment would get downvoted for that reason. I think the experiment proved something.
- davidw 3y ago
  The problem is extremely public here in the western US.
- wongarsu 3y ago
  It's a matter of framing. We just have to move the discussion from "global warming increases wildfires, buy more EVs" to "global warming increases wildfires, let's improve our forest management to manage the impact (while also fighting against climate change)".
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - graemep 3y ago
    > "global warming increases wildfires, buy more EVs" There is a profit to be made from selling EVs. > "global warming increases wildfires, let's improve our forest management to manage the impact (while also fighting against climate change)" Better forest management IS fighting climate change. Well managed land can be a carbon sink whereas fires release huge amounts of CO2 and are damaging in many other says. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-27353-x https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-27353-x bout just one region of the world But doing this is costly and there is not much to be sold to do it. There is always a lobby for doing something that that means someone can sell something. For things that do not increase sales, particularly things that involve not doing things (e.g. no cutting down forests) there is no equivalent lobby.
    - arrowleaf 3y ago
      Fighting wildfires is expensive, which means it's big business. There's absolutely business interests in keeping wildfires raging. Fire suppression means the government gets to purchase planes and helicopters, 3M can supply countless brand new sets of fire resistant gear every year considering how high wildland fire employee turnover is, Perimeter Solutions gets to sell Phos-Chek faster than they can produce it, etc.
      - graemep 3y ago
        Just to be clear, the point you are making is that there is a business opportunity in not having good land management.
        arrowleaf 3y ago
        Yes. There's business interest in getting legislators/officials distracted from what is really good land management, namely prescribed fires and public services around clearing combustibles away from infrastructure and homes.
- vkou 3y ago
  Don't worry, nobody will do anything about global warming, either. We've already blown right past the Paris accord, I'm sure we'll soon come up with a new accord that will set a target that we will also blow past. In the meantime, invest in an air conditioner and an air purifier for your city home, and try not to own any summer dachas in heavily forested areas.
- wk_end 3y ago
  The problem is not made public...except in the New Yorker? Except by the president of the United States? Shifting blame towards land management practices - not necessarily by you, but for example by that particular POTUS - is often an attempt to downplay global warming and the urgent need to do take steps to stave it off, rather than a good-faith attempt to reform land management practices. If people detect a whiff of that, that's what makes them downvote; given the present and future consequences of downplaying global warming and the urgent need to take steps to stave it off, and the push that's been behind that for the past, oh, fifty-to-seventy years or so, can you blame them? No one's against reforming land management to prevent forest fires.
  - kcplate 3y ago
    > is often an attempt to downplay global warming and the urgent need to do take steps to stave it off… I mean so what…. I don’t see how having a conversation about taking a practical steps to avoid a disaster should be suppressed just because the person initiating the conversation might have a different opinion on a related subject.
    - wk_end 3y ago
      You or I may want to have a conversation about taking practical steps to avoid a disaster, but personally speaking I don't want to have it with a hypothetical interlocutor who is not having that conversation in good faith, but rather weaponizing it in an attempt to further their catastrophic political goals.
      - kcplate 3y ago
        “The northwest might burn to the ground, people may die or be displaced, but god dammit we simply cannot give that political party a win (even if we win too).” Yep, that attitude that makes perfect sense for society.
        wk_end 3y ago
        Downvoting someone on HN for arguing in bad faith isn't keeping "a political party" from having "a win", much less determining whether or not the PNW is going to burn down.
- throwbadubadu 3y ago
  It is how you say that and how you just state something very oversimplified like fact, almost like a climate denier. To start with > "focus on global warming means no one will do anything about poor land management" Gross generalization, a lot changed long and still lately, you are just saying: all lazy because of global warming excuses.. and then > "Global warming is to blame in their minds is equivalent to no other cause can be blamed." Any quote where someone official reasoned like that? Btw funny, seeing that actually you are the one here blaming "global warming" for something?

It isn't mutually exclusive. Warming is a major cause of increased wildfires, and poor land use and overgrowth due to fire suppression make it worse.

by mjhay 3y ago

It isn't mutually exclusive. Warming is a major cause of increased wildfires, and poor land use and overgrowth due to fire suppression make it worse.

graemep 3y ago

The point is that the focus on global warming means no one will do anything about poor land management because that problem is not made public. You can see what happens right here in the downvotes I have got. Just because I shift blame for something away from global warming to another cause, people feel they most downvote me. Global warming is to blame in their minds is equivalent to no other cause can be blamed. I partly made that comment to see how much a rational and reasonable comment would get downvoted for that reason. I think the experiment proved something.

davidw 3y ago
The problem is extremely public here in the western US.
wongarsu 3y ago
It's a matter of framing. We just have to move the discussion from "global warming increases wildfires, buy more EVs" to "global warming increases wildfires, let's improve our forest management to manage the impact (while also fighting against climate change)".
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- graemep 3y ago
  > "global warming increases wildfires, buy more EVs" There is a profit to be made from selling EVs. > "global warming increases wildfires, let's improve our forest management to manage the impact (while also fighting against climate change)" Better forest management IS fighting climate change. Well managed land can be a carbon sink whereas fires release huge amounts of CO2 and are damaging in many other says. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-27353-x https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-27353-x bout just one region of the world But doing this is costly and there is not much to be sold to do it. There is always a lobby for doing something that that means someone can sell something. For things that do not increase sales, particularly things that involve not doing things (e.g. no cutting down forests) there is no equivalent lobby.
  - arrowleaf 3y ago
    Fighting wildfires is expensive, which means it's big business. There's absolutely business interests in keeping wildfires raging. Fire suppression means the government gets to purchase planes and helicopters, 3M can supply countless brand new sets of fire resistant gear every year considering how high wildland fire employee turnover is, Perimeter Solutions gets to sell Phos-Chek faster than they can produce it, etc.
    - graemep 3y ago
      Just to be clear, the point you are making is that there is a business opportunity in not having good land management.
      - arrowleaf 3y ago
        Yes. There's business interest in getting legislators/officials distracted from what is really good land management, namely prescribed fires and public services around clearing combustibles away from infrastructure and homes.
vkou 3y ago
Don't worry, nobody will do anything about global warming, either. We've already blown right past the Paris accord, I'm sure we'll soon come up with a new accord that will set a target that we will also blow past. In the meantime, invest in an air conditioner and an air purifier for your city home, and try not to own any summer dachas in heavily forested areas.
wk_end 3y ago
The problem is not made public...except in the New Yorker? Except by the president of the United States? Shifting blame towards land management practices - not necessarily by you, but for example by that particular POTUS - is often an attempt to downplay global warming and the urgent need to do take steps to stave it off, rather than a good-faith attempt to reform land management practices. If people detect a whiff of that, that's what makes them downvote; given the present and future consequences of downplaying global warming and the urgent need to take steps to stave it off, and the push that's been behind that for the past, oh, fifty-to-seventy years or so, can you blame them? No one's against reforming land management to prevent forest fires.
- kcplate 3y ago
  > is often an attempt to downplay global warming and the urgent need to do take steps to stave it off… I mean so what…. I don’t see how having a conversation about taking a practical steps to avoid a disaster should be suppressed just because the person initiating the conversation might have a different opinion on a related subject.
  - wk_end 3y ago
    You or I may want to have a conversation about taking practical steps to avoid a disaster, but personally speaking I don't want to have it with a hypothetical interlocutor who is not having that conversation in good faith, but rather weaponizing it in an attempt to further their catastrophic political goals.
    - kcplate 3y ago
      “The northwest might burn to the ground, people may die or be displaced, but god dammit we simply cannot give that political party a win (even if we win too).” Yep, that attitude that makes perfect sense for society.
      - wk_end 3y ago
        Downvoting someone on HN for arguing in bad faith isn't keeping "a political party" from having "a win", much less determining whether or not the PNW is going to burn down.
throwbadubadu 3y ago
It is how you say that and how you just state something very oversimplified like fact, almost like a climate denier. To start with > "focus on global warming means no one will do anything about poor land management" Gross generalization, a lot changed long and still lately, you are just saying: all lazy because of global warming excuses.. and then > "Global warming is to blame in their minds is equivalent to no other cause can be blamed." Any quote where someone official reasoned like that? Btw funny, seeing that actually you are the one here blaming "global warming" for something?