6 ms·

Hybrid is so underrated. I have always said this is the way!

by sarimkhalid 3y ago

malshe 3y ago
I agree and there are so many nice options from Toyota.
vondur 3y ago
The latest iteration of the Prius plug in hybrid is really nice.
skyyler 3y ago
Something closer to how diesel-electric trains work has always made sense to me, compared to the Prius.
- blackguardx 3y ago
  Diesel-electric trains have no battery, though. The Chevy Volt hybrid was pretty close in that the gas engine acted only as a generator to charge the batteries and could supply enough power for the motors in case the batteries died. I’m not sure why Chevy killed it.
  - beej71 3y ago
    From the sound of Toyota's profits, I'll bet Chevy isn't sure, either. :)
  - neogodless 3y ago
    General Motors (GM) has a longstanding issue where what they care about most is global platform sales. They tend to only prioritize platforms that can be used to sell as many vehicles as possible. Regardless of how brilliant and well-engineered it might be, if it's not one of their better sales vehicles (or a halo car like the Corvette), they kill it. Often, they are just impatient, and if they'd take some of these great platforms and developed them and nurtured them, they could've expanded them into one of those global top sellers, but they tend to keep a close eye on shorter timelines.
  - cityofdelusion 3y ago
    The Volt was an _incredible_ piece of engineering, but it was also an incredibly expensive architecture that was basically mandated as part of the government bailout of GM. Sadly it was perceived as a money loser and that was that, traditional hybrids just hit lower price points.
- science4sail 3y ago
  Honda's hybrid system is a bit closer to that, but in practice it's not as reliable or efficient as Toyota's - they haven't been iterating on it for as long. > Honda’s two-motor hybrid system can operate as either a series or parallel hybrid. The majority of the time, the system operates as a series hybrid. Its electric propulsion motor drives the wheels directly, while the gasoline engine connected to the electric generator/starter motor functions as an electrical generator, supplying power to the hybrid battery and/or the propulsion motor. Under certain driving conditions, such as steady-state cruising at highway speeds, the system switches seamlessly to parallel hybrid operation, with the gasoline engine connecting to the front axle via a clutch, and vehicle speed is proportional to engine speed (rpm). Source: https://hondanews.com/en-US/honda-automobiles/releases/release-1503019bd8a757ea08267d7944378955-honda-two-motor-hybrid-electric-system https://hondanews.com/en-US/honda-automobiles/releases/relea...
- postalrat 3y ago
  Diesel electric trains need extreme amounts of torque to pull all that weight. There is no reason at all to assume what works for a train would be a good choice for a car.
nightski 3y ago
In principle I really like it, use gas for long distance and electric for the other 90%. However aren't you really just getting the worst of both worlds? Under-powered gas engine and limited range ev? Wouldn't it weigh a lot more and have twice as many parts to break down? All the maintenance of a gas engine with the additional cost of a battery/electric?
- bombcar 3y ago
  They usually turn out more reliable (if built right) because you can remove the transmission entirely, which is a major complicated piece of mechanical engineering that is prone to failure.
  - bryanlarsen 3y ago
    They are more reliable because Toyota sells a large fraction of the hybrids. Non-Toyota hybrids are less reliable than both gasoline cars and EV's. Maybe that's circular because a large fraction of the non-Toyota hybrids are Stellantis...
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - callalex 3y ago
    They also get to run the engine at a lower duty cycle while it is warming up, which is a big source of wear and tear for a gas engine. They also never have to run a rich mixture because the power gap is made up for by the electric motor.
- subpixel 3y ago
  These hybrids should be 100m EV range, that is plenty for most trips. The RAV4 Prime gets about 42m from each charge, which is a bit short for my commute but cuts by gas consumption by a whole lot. There's nothing under-powered about the gas engine. F-150 daily drivers may cringe, but that's a cultural problem not a problem with the vehicle.
bombcar 3y ago
Hybrids really are nice, Toyota just doesn't have any stock at all in the vehicles I was looking for. The key is they have hybrids at "normal car" prices - the basic Sienna is hybrid and comparable in price to the Kia Carnival and other non hybrid minivans; and much cheaper than the plug-in hybrid Pacifica. The basic model Sienna just doesn't actually exist anywhere for purchase.
- twisteriffic 3y ago
  My local dealer seems to have a scheme going that leads to them having a lot of very low km (like <2000) Siennas listed for 1.2-2x MSRP. I hope they choke on them.
- sarimkhalid 3y ago
  What a shame. From the article: "In the U.S., hybrid demand significantly exceeds production capacity, leading to tight inventories at dealerships, Miyazaki said." I'll further my point about hybrid being such a low-hanging, realistic solution. The core technology has been there since the late 90s. Every single major manufacture can quickly produce them. This doesn't have to be just daily family cars, the luxury market (Ferrari) and the 4x4 segment can also take advantage of this. There is already a hybrid Tundra available. Lets take London for e.g. there are about 2.5 Million cars, lets assume if all of all them were to be hybrid, you would have SIGNIFICANT reduction in fuel consumption and costs to the owners, without ANY lifestyle change. You are not giving anything up as there is something available for everyone's taste. No range anxiety. I seriously do not understand why governments don't take this seriously.
  - ianai 3y ago
    Plus you can linearly ramp up the BEV powertrain as tech and scale progresses over time while diminishing the ICE side. And eventually swapping in a hydrogen fuel cell is a possibility in the long term. (Not in the same vehicle, of course)
  - callalex 3y ago
    Preface: I drive a hybrid, and I have since 2002, before they were cool. The reason government incentives aren’t pushing hybrids now is that government policy is driven off of idealism instead of practicality. In the ideal world, a brand new hybrid is too little too late. A 2024 hybrid will almost certainly still be operating in 2040. By then we really need to be at near-zero carbon emissions if we want to have any hope of avoiding climate catastrophe. On the other hand the status quo means people are just buying gas guzzlers since they can’t afford/can’t practically use BEV.
voisin 3y ago
You still have all the hassle of ICE maintenance though.
- NovemberWhiskey 3y ago
  Maybe I'm the outlier (mostly newer cars?) but I've never had to do more than take cars in for regular maintenance at service intervals. Most of the costs were for wear items like tires, brakes, wipers, cabin air filters etc. or for suspension things alignment. None of that is any different between ICE and electric cars. I don't think I've ever had an actual drive-train issue.
  - turtlebits 3y ago
    IME, dropping off cars for service is a huge hassle, from either waiting a couple hours at the dealer or 2x shuttle pickups / or having someone drop/pick you up. I did this every 6 months for my Tacoma, which was the required schedule for a new car to maintain the warranty. I've taken my Bolt in once for a battery recall / cabin air filter in 6 years of ownership.
    - postalrat 3y ago
      I've taken my cheap-ass Kia Soul to the dealership 1 time in the 10 years I've owned it. For some optional brake line rust recall.
- freetime2 3y ago
  I often see less maintenance listed as a benefit of EVs. But according to Hertz at least, who have real world experience running large fleets of EVs and ICE cars, EVs end up being more expensive to operate due to lower residual values and higher repair costs. [1] [1] https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/01/hertz-is-selling-20000-used-evs-due-to-high-repair-costs/ https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/01/hertz-is-selling-20000-...
wavesounds 3y ago
Plugin hybrid is the best.
anjel 3y ago
Where Tesla is a far simpler design for a personal vehicle than ICE, hybrids have even more parts and components than ICE cars.
- helij 3y ago
  They can still be less complicated due to simpler transmission.
r00fus 3y ago
Hybrid is just a slightly more efficient ICE. Plug-in is where it gets interesting as you can go mostly without fillups for commutes/shopping if you have access to charging at home/work.

Hybrid is so underrated. I have always said this is the way!

malshe 3y ago

I agree and there are so many nice options from Toyota.

vondur 3y ago

The latest iteration of the Prius plug in hybrid is really nice.

skyyler 3y ago

Something closer to how diesel-electric trains work has always made sense to me, compared to the Prius.

blackguardx 3y ago
Diesel-electric trains have no battery, though. The Chevy Volt hybrid was pretty close in that the gas engine acted only as a generator to charge the batteries and could supply enough power for the motors in case the batteries died. I’m not sure why Chevy killed it.
- beej71 3y ago
  From the sound of Toyota's profits, I'll bet Chevy isn't sure, either. :)
- neogodless 3y ago
  General Motors (GM) has a longstanding issue where what they care about most is global platform sales. They tend to only prioritize platforms that can be used to sell as many vehicles as possible. Regardless of how brilliant and well-engineered it might be, if it's not one of their better sales vehicles (or a halo car like the Corvette), they kill it. Often, they are just impatient, and if they'd take some of these great platforms and developed them and nurtured them, they could've expanded them into one of those global top sellers, but they tend to keep a close eye on shorter timelines.
- cityofdelusion 3y ago
  The Volt was an _incredible_ piece of engineering, but it was also an incredibly expensive architecture that was basically mandated as part of the government bailout of GM. Sadly it was perceived as a money loser and that was that, traditional hybrids just hit lower price points.
science4sail 3y ago
Honda's hybrid system is a bit closer to that, but in practice it's not as reliable or efficient as Toyota's - they haven't been iterating on it for as long. > Honda’s two-motor hybrid system can operate as either a series or parallel hybrid. The majority of the time, the system operates as a series hybrid. Its electric propulsion motor drives the wheels directly, while the gasoline engine connected to the electric generator/starter motor functions as an electrical generator, supplying power to the hybrid battery and/or the propulsion motor. Under certain driving conditions, such as steady-state cruising at highway speeds, the system switches seamlessly to parallel hybrid operation, with the gasoline engine connecting to the front axle via a clutch, and vehicle speed is proportional to engine speed (rpm). Source: https://hondanews.com/en-US/honda-automobiles/releases/release-1503019bd8a757ea08267d7944378955-honda-two-motor-hybrid-electric-system https://hondanews.com/en-US/honda-automobiles/releases/relea...
postalrat 3y ago
Diesel electric trains need extreme amounts of torque to pull all that weight. There is no reason at all to assume what works for a train would be a good choice for a car.

nightski 3y ago

In principle I really like it, use gas for long distance and electric for the other 90%. However aren't you really just getting the worst of both worlds? Under-powered gas engine and limited range ev? Wouldn't it weigh a lot more and have twice as many parts to break down? All the maintenance of a gas engine with the additional cost of a battery/electric?

bombcar 3y ago
They usually turn out more reliable (if built right) because you can remove the transmission entirely, which is a major complicated piece of mechanical engineering that is prone to failure.
- bryanlarsen 3y ago
  They are more reliable because Toyota sells a large fraction of the hybrids. Non-Toyota hybrids are less reliable than both gasoline cars and EV's. Maybe that's circular because a large fraction of the non-Toyota hybrids are Stellantis...
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- callalex 3y ago
  They also get to run the engine at a lower duty cycle while it is warming up, which is a big source of wear and tear for a gas engine. They also never have to run a rich mixture because the power gap is made up for by the electric motor.
subpixel 3y ago
These hybrids should be 100m EV range, that is plenty for most trips. The RAV4 Prime gets about 42m from each charge, which is a bit short for my commute but cuts by gas consumption by a whole lot. There's nothing under-powered about the gas engine. F-150 daily drivers may cringe, but that's a cultural problem not a problem with the vehicle.

bombcar 3y ago

Hybrids really are nice, Toyota just doesn't have any stock at all in the vehicles I was looking for. The key is they have hybrids at "normal car" prices - the basic Sienna is hybrid and comparable in price to the Kia Carnival and other non hybrid minivans; and much cheaper than the plug-in hybrid Pacifica. The basic model Sienna just doesn't actually exist anywhere for purchase.

twisteriffic 3y ago
My local dealer seems to have a scheme going that leads to them having a lot of very low km (like <2000) Siennas listed for 1.2-2x MSRP. I hope they choke on them.
sarimkhalid 3y ago
What a shame. From the article: "In the U.S., hybrid demand significantly exceeds production capacity, leading to tight inventories at dealerships, Miyazaki said." I'll further my point about hybrid being such a low-hanging, realistic solution. The core technology has been there since the late 90s. Every single major manufacture can quickly produce them. This doesn't have to be just daily family cars, the luxury market (Ferrari) and the 4x4 segment can also take advantage of this. There is already a hybrid Tundra available. Lets take London for e.g. there are about 2.5 Million cars, lets assume if all of all them were to be hybrid, you would have SIGNIFICANT reduction in fuel consumption and costs to the owners, without ANY lifestyle change. You are not giving anything up as there is something available for everyone's taste. No range anxiety. I seriously do not understand why governments don't take this seriously.
- ianai 3y ago
  Plus you can linearly ramp up the BEV powertrain as tech and scale progresses over time while diminishing the ICE side. And eventually swapping in a hydrogen fuel cell is a possibility in the long term. (Not in the same vehicle, of course)
- callalex 3y ago
  Preface: I drive a hybrid, and I have since 2002, before they were cool. The reason government incentives aren’t pushing hybrids now is that government policy is driven off of idealism instead of practicality. In the ideal world, a brand new hybrid is too little too late. A 2024 hybrid will almost certainly still be operating in 2040. By then we really need to be at near-zero carbon emissions if we want to have any hope of avoiding climate catastrophe. On the other hand the status quo means people are just buying gas guzzlers since they can’t afford/can’t practically use BEV.

voisin 3y ago

You still have all the hassle of ICE maintenance though.

NovemberWhiskey 3y ago
Maybe I'm the outlier (mostly newer cars?) but I've never had to do more than take cars in for regular maintenance at service intervals. Most of the costs were for wear items like tires, brakes, wipers, cabin air filters etc. or for suspension things alignment. None of that is any different between ICE and electric cars. I don't think I've ever had an actual drive-train issue.
- turtlebits 3y ago
  IME, dropping off cars for service is a huge hassle, from either waiting a couple hours at the dealer or 2x shuttle pickups / or having someone drop/pick you up. I did this every 6 months for my Tacoma, which was the required schedule for a new car to maintain the warranty. I've taken my Bolt in once for a battery recall / cabin air filter in 6 years of ownership.
  - postalrat 3y ago
    I've taken my cheap-ass Kia Soul to the dealership 1 time in the 10 years I've owned it. For some optional brake line rust recall.
freetime2 3y ago
I often see less maintenance listed as a benefit of EVs. But according to Hertz at least, who have real world experience running large fleets of EVs and ICE cars, EVs end up being more expensive to operate due to lower residual values and higher repair costs. [1] [1] https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/01/hertz-is-selling-20000-used-evs-due-to-high-repair-costs/ https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/01/hertz-is-selling-20000-...

wavesounds 3y ago

Plugin hybrid is the best.

anjel 3y ago

Where Tesla is a far simpler design for a personal vehicle than ICE, hybrids have even more parts and components than ICE cars.

helij 3y ago
They can still be less complicated due to simpler transmission.

r00fus 3y ago

Hybrid is just a slightly more efficient ICE. Plug-in is where it gets interesting as you can go mostly without fillups for commutes/shopping if you have access to charging at home/work.