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I recently used Willful to create a will and was pretty disappointed with the result. The template was extremely rigid on matters that I thought should have bee

I recently used Willful to create a will and was pretty disappointed with the result. The template was extremely rigid on matters that I thought should have been no-brainers to be able to express (if X has happened, do Y, otherwise Z) and didn't allow for any kind of property division other than percentages of the total. It was also very consumed with several matters that I don't really feel that strongly about, like the fate of my pets. I was still able to rewrite the result into something that more suited me, but for a service with a $150 price tag I kind of hoped it would do more.

hansonkd 3y ago
Our philosophy at GetDynasty is that the contract (in our case estate planning documents) itself is a commodity which is why we give it away for free. Charging $150 for a template doesn't make sense. Our solution like you point out is more rigid than having a lawyer write it, but for the majority of people having something that is accessible and free is worth it and then having services layer on top makes the most sense. It is easier to have a well written contract that you can "turn on and off" features or sections of the contract than to try to have GPT write a custom contract for you.
- pclmulqdq 3y ago
  I applaud the efforts to give away free documents like this. That is actually what happens when you have a lawyer do it: you pay pretty much nothing for the actual contract clauses to be written (they start with a basic form and form language for all of the custom clauses you may want), but you pay a lot for them to be customized to fit your exact desires and to ensure that your custom choices all work. The idea of "legalzoom-style" businesses has always seemed like a bamboozle to me. You pay hundreds of dollars for essentially the form documents to fill in, and you don't get any of the flexibility that an actual lawyer gives you. As another example, Northwest Registered Agent gives you your corporate form docs for free with their registered agent services.
- singleshot_ 3y ago
  Interestingly, this is almost exactly how I draft a contract as an attorney. Westlaw has tons of what you might call “templates” but which have tons of information concerning when and why a client might need a certain part of the template. The difference is that when Westlaw presents me with a decision point and I choose the wrong option for my client, my client sues my insurer and is made whole. (My premiums increase accordingly). If you make the wrong choice in your choose-your-own-legal-adventure, you lose. (For some contracts, this is probably the right approach).
JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> like the fate of my pets Pet trusts [1]! My lawyer literally used their existence, which I find adorable, to motivate me to read my paperwork. [1] https://www.aspca.org/pet-care/pet-planning/pet-trust-primer https://www.aspca.org/pet-care/pet-planning/pet-trust-primer
toss1 3y ago
>>didn't allow for any kind of property division other than percentages of the total. Knowing someone who works in Trusts & Estates, that is terrible. I've often heard complaints about drafting by percentages of anything but straight financial assets which have an easily determined value, because that requires an appraisal(s). Yes, there are mechanisms to work it out in the end, but it is definitely better to be able to say $X to Alice, $Y to Bob and the remainder to Claire. You have to think of not only what you want, but how the executors will need to handle it. We all love complex formulae, but we should use our ability to handle complexity to simplify things for the heirs - it's a real gift in a bad time.
- mikepurvis 3y ago
  Heh, okay I guess what I wanted was going to end up as the worst of both— fixed amounts off the top to some particular people/causes, and then the remainder divided into shares for my kids. I guess there's an understanding the being an executor is a best-effort role, but maybe you could specifically codify that +/-5% on the individual shares is fine, just to take off some of the burden of needing it to be perfect, particularly if there are payouts occurring at different times and therefore some NPV stuff going on.

hansonkd 3y ago

Our philosophy at GetDynasty is that the contract (in our case estate planning documents) itself is a commodity which is why we give it away for free. Charging $150 for a template doesn't make sense. Our solution like you point out is more rigid than having a lawyer write it, but for the majority of people having something that is accessible and free is worth it and then having services layer on top makes the most sense. It is easier to have a well written contract that you can "turn on and off" features or sections of the contract than to try to have GPT write a custom contract for you.

pclmulqdq 3y ago
I applaud the efforts to give away free documents like this. That is actually what happens when you have a lawyer do it: you pay pretty much nothing for the actual contract clauses to be written (they start with a basic form and form language for all of the custom clauses you may want), but you pay a lot for them to be customized to fit your exact desires and to ensure that your custom choices all work. The idea of "legalzoom-style" businesses has always seemed like a bamboozle to me. You pay hundreds of dollars for essentially the form documents to fill in, and you don't get any of the flexibility that an actual lawyer gives you. As another example, Northwest Registered Agent gives you your corporate form docs for free with their registered agent services.
singleshot_ 3y ago
Interestingly, this is almost exactly how I draft a contract as an attorney. Westlaw has tons of what you might call “templates” but which have tons of information concerning when and why a client might need a certain part of the template. The difference is that when Westlaw presents me with a decision point and I choose the wrong option for my client, my client sues my insurer and is made whole. (My premiums increase accordingly). If you make the wrong choice in your choose-your-own-legal-adventure, you lose. (For some contracts, this is probably the right approach).

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

> like the fate of my pets Pet trusts [1]! My lawyer literally used their existence, which I find adorable, to motivate me to read my paperwork. [1] https://www.aspca.org/pet-care/pet-planning/pet-trust-primer https://www.aspca.org/pet-care/pet-planning/pet-trust-primer

toss1 3y ago

>>didn't allow for any kind of property division other than percentages of the total. Knowing someone who works in Trusts & Estates, that is terrible. I've often heard complaints about drafting by percentages of anything but straight financial assets which have an easily determined value, because that requires an appraisal(s). Yes, there are mechanisms to work it out in the end, but it is definitely better to be able to say $X to Alice, $Y to Bob and the remainder to Claire. You have to think of not only what you want, but how the executors will need to handle it. We all love complex formulae, but we should use our ability to handle complexity to simplify things for the heirs - it's a real gift in a bad time.

mikepurvis 3y ago
Heh, okay I guess what I wanted was going to end up as the worst of both— fixed amounts off the top to some particular people/causes, and then the remainder divided into shares for my kids. I guess there's an understanding the being an executor is a best-effort role, but maybe you could specifically codify that +/-5% on the individual shares is fine, just to take off some of the burden of needing it to be perfect, particularly if there are payouts occurring at different times and therefore some NPV stuff going on.