4 ms·

It’s not slavery when the human has done things that society deemed bad enough to lose their rights for however long the sentence is.

by ecf 3y ago

Loic 3y ago
You are losing your freedom of movement, not your rights, no?
- wang_li 3y ago
  Prisoners lose most of their rights. They have no privacy rights, they can be searched at any time without a warrant, they often don't get to vote, they don't get to own weapons, they don't have freedom of association, they don't get to choose their style of dress.
- EasyMark 3y ago
  Nope you lose a lot of your rights as well. I don't know about European prisons, though. When you break the social contract, there are consequences.
  - hotpotamus 3y ago
    I've never seen the social contract, let alone signed it. I suppose I used to sort of believe that it existed, but that belief, like so many others I once held, has not survived the past decade or so. Certainly I believe in consequences, but they seem little better than random, though they quite rarely touch the wealthy/connected.
BeetleB 3y ago
Slavery is slavery, regardless of how bad the person is.
- programmarchy 3y ago
  And kidnapping is kidnapping. According to this logic, imprisonment is kidnapping, and serial killers should be free to roam the streets.
  - BeetleB 3y ago
    > And kidnapping is kidnapping. According to this logic, imprisonment is kidnapping, MW definition: "to seize and detain or carry away by unlawful force or fraud and often with a demand for ransom" So no: Lawful imprisonment is not kidnapping.
    - programmarchy 3y ago
      That is exactly my point. The law is the differentiator: the 13th amendment sets apart forced labor for punishment of a crime.
Helloyello 3y ago
[dead]
sigspec 3y ago
Are you sure? https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/10/12/louisiana-sheriff-argues-against-releasing-prisoners-you-can-work-drawing-slavery-comparisons/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/10/1...
uicompat 3y ago
If you truly hold this position you’d be well served to familiarize yourself with Scandinavian prison system which focuses on rehabilitation rather than punishment and various American atrocities such as the war on drugs and the private prison pipeline such as “kids for cash”. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal
- wang_li 3y ago
  Kids for cash was a crime. It doesn't reinforce the idea that the system is designed to ship people into private prisons. It shows the opposite.
  - uicompat 3y ago
    This comment makes me incredibly sad. It’s hard to put into words how destructive your line of reasoning is, and the confidence with which you express it frightens me that others might even share it with you. I would argue that the private prison system is in fact designed to do exactly this, namely to put people in prison and keep them there for profit. You could argue that my claim that their intent is nefarious is speculation and I’ll grant you that, because I am unfamiliar with any private prison owners or the people who came up with the idea, but by that token you’d have to grant your opinion about the intent behind private prisons is also purely speculative, and I would add more damaging than my speculation. > The charges outlined in the information[23] described actions between 2000 and 2007 by both judges to assist in the construction and population of private juvenile facilities operated by the two Pennsylvania Child Care companies, acting in an official capacity in favor of the private facilities over the facility operated by Luzerne County. Your attempt at logic somehow leads you to tell the victims over a 7 year period ~“look, you won, now stop bringing attention to this issue, the system is designed to do something else, who cares that it is capable of being exploited in this manner”. If everyone had your perspective those prisons would still be doing this, but thankfully in that 7 year period of “the system working as designed” activists speculated that something nefarious was happening and brought attention to how it actually works. > It shows the opposite. This is incredibly naive. When has one entity getting caught ever been a legitimate excuse for everyone else similarly situated to be free from scrutiny? What is “the opposite” in this context anyway? Do you believe private prisons exist to empty themselves and “give cash to kids”? How does a private prison sustain itself with a population of 0?
rolph 3y ago
why punish twice for one crime ?

It’s not slavery when the human has done things that society deemed bad enough to lose their rights for however long the sentence is.

by ecf 3y ago

It’s not slavery when the human has done things that society deemed bad enough to lose their rights for however long the sentence is.

Loic 3y ago

You are losing your freedom of movement, not your rights, no?

wang_li 3y ago
Prisoners lose most of their rights. They have no privacy rights, they can be searched at any time without a warrant, they often don't get to vote, they don't get to own weapons, they don't have freedom of association, they don't get to choose their style of dress.
EasyMark 3y ago
Nope you lose a lot of your rights as well. I don't know about European prisons, though. When you break the social contract, there are consequences.
- hotpotamus 3y ago
  I've never seen the social contract, let alone signed it. I suppose I used to sort of believe that it existed, but that belief, like so many others I once held, has not survived the past decade or so. Certainly I believe in consequences, but they seem little better than random, though they quite rarely touch the wealthy/connected.

BeetleB 3y ago

Slavery is slavery, regardless of how bad the person is.

programmarchy 3y ago
And kidnapping is kidnapping. According to this logic, imprisonment is kidnapping, and serial killers should be free to roam the streets.
- BeetleB 3y ago
  > And kidnapping is kidnapping. According to this logic, imprisonment is kidnapping, MW definition: "to seize and detain or carry away by unlawful force or fraud and often with a demand for ransom" So no: Lawful imprisonment is not kidnapping.
  - programmarchy 3y ago
    That is exactly my point. The law is the differentiator: the 13th amendment sets apart forced labor for punishment of a crime.

Helloyello 3y ago

[dead]

sigspec 3y ago

Are you sure? https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/10/12/louisiana-sheriff-argues-against-releasing-prisoners-you-can-work-drawing-slavery-comparisons/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/10/1...

uicompat 3y ago

If you truly hold this position you’d be well served to familiarize yourself with Scandinavian prison system which focuses on rehabilitation rather than punishment and various American atrocities such as the war on drugs and the private prison pipeline such as “kids for cash”. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal

wang_li 3y ago
Kids for cash was a crime. It doesn't reinforce the idea that the system is designed to ship people into private prisons. It shows the opposite.
- uicompat 3y ago
  This comment makes me incredibly sad. It’s hard to put into words how destructive your line of reasoning is, and the confidence with which you express it frightens me that others might even share it with you. I would argue that the private prison system is in fact designed to do exactly this, namely to put people in prison and keep them there for profit. You could argue that my claim that their intent is nefarious is speculation and I’ll grant you that, because I am unfamiliar with any private prison owners or the people who came up with the idea, but by that token you’d have to grant your opinion about the intent behind private prisons is also purely speculative, and I would add more damaging than my speculation. > The charges outlined in the information[23] described actions between 2000 and 2007 by both judges to assist in the construction and population of private juvenile facilities operated by the two Pennsylvania Child Care companies, acting in an official capacity in favor of the private facilities over the facility operated by Luzerne County. Your attempt at logic somehow leads you to tell the victims over a 7 year period ~“look, you won, now stop bringing attention to this issue, the system is designed to do something else, who cares that it is capable of being exploited in this manner”. If everyone had your perspective those prisons would still be doing this, but thankfully in that 7 year period of “the system working as designed” activists speculated that something nefarious was happening and brought attention to how it actually works. > It shows the opposite. This is incredibly naive. When has one entity getting caught ever been a legitimate excuse for everyone else similarly situated to be free from scrutiny? What is “the opposite” in this context anyway? Do you believe private prisons exist to empty themselves and “give cash to kids”? How does a private prison sustain itself with a population of 0?

rolph 3y ago

why punish twice for one crime ?