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> Those who whine about how putting them to work amounts to slavery seems to do so out of pure reflex, and it's just tiresome. The problem with specifically st

> Those who whine about how putting them to work amounts to slavery seems to do so out of pure reflex, and it's just tiresome. The problem with specifically stating in the Constitution that slavery is abolished EXCEPT as punishment for a crime is that in today's day and age, it incentivizes punishment. Can you or I say with any certainty that fish suppliers will be able to survive if they don't utilize legalized slave labor to farm their fish? We've just created an incentive for "Slave Fish Co." to lobby their local government to not fund rehabilitation services, or community outreach programs, and reduce investment in social programs. Create a local community that doesn't offer affordable rehab facilities and now the only option is going to prison. Work as a form of rehabilitation makes sense when utilized correctly. But this is work as a form of punishment and we tied it in with economic factors. As I said, this just incentivizes local governments and lobbyists to ensure a growing supply of dirt-cheap labor.

NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
> Work as a form of rehabilitation makes sense when utilized correctly. It can't ever work correctly as rehabilitation. In the early 20th century, maybe those reformers had an excuse to believe that criminals just didn't have any honest options. But we know better today. Too many counter-examples of those who do have honest options, but commit crimes anyway. Why? They get a thrill out of it. Criminality becomes its own culture, one in which they can achieve a high status. It's simply a better career path to participate in that culture than to try to become adopted by another that you'd be a "foreigner" in for decades before you could ever find a path in that new one? And in the meantime, it must be so thrilling. Lots of adrenaline. Lots of cash. Being chased, but feeling like you're too clever to be found or too strong to being taken down. There's no rehabilitating that, not with work programs or anything else. > Create a local community that doesn't offer affordable rehab facilities and now the only option is going to prison. Haha. I know there's alot of shit being posted on reddit and other places like it about the poor guy who got caught with a joint and is sent to prison for 20 years, but do you really believe that? The junkie doesn't want rehab, and if he does (it must happen once in awhile, I suppose), rehab's not the difference between him quitting and falling down further into the spiral. Most of the people there are guilty of violent crimes, the rest are guilty of selling large quantities of heroin and making things worse for that poor junkie you're so concerned about. The numbers bear this out, if you care to check. There are a few borderline instances here and there, but prison labor isn't incentivizing any sort of corruption of the sort you're claiming to any degree we should be worried about. At least in this country. Who knows about China.

NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago

> Work as a form of rehabilitation makes sense when utilized correctly. It can't ever work correctly as rehabilitation. In the early 20th century, maybe those reformers had an excuse to believe that criminals just didn't have any honest options. But we know better today. Too many counter-examples of those who do have honest options, but commit crimes anyway. Why? They get a thrill out of it. Criminality becomes its own culture, one in which they can achieve a high status. It's simply a better career path to participate in that culture than to try to become adopted by another that you'd be a "foreigner" in for decades before you could ever find a path in that new one? And in the meantime, it must be so thrilling. Lots of adrenaline. Lots of cash. Being chased, but feeling like you're too clever to be found or too strong to being taken down. There's no rehabilitating that, not with work programs or anything else. > Create a local community that doesn't offer affordable rehab facilities and now the only option is going to prison. Haha. I know there's alot of shit being posted on reddit and other places like it about the poor guy who got caught with a joint and is sent to prison for 20 years, but do you really believe that? The junkie doesn't want rehab, and if he does (it must happen once in awhile, I suppose), rehab's not the difference between him quitting and falling down further into the spiral. Most of the people there are guilty of violent crimes, the rest are guilty of selling large quantities of heroin and making things worse for that poor junkie you're so concerned about. The numbers bear this out, if you care to check. There are a few borderline instances here and there, but prison labor isn't incentivizing any sort of corruption of the sort you're claiming to any degree we should be worried about. At least in this country. Who knows about China.