6 ms·

AI can now master your music

48 points by dudewhocodes 3y ago

nottorp 3y ago
Hmm. > the system spits back a song that hits modern loudness standards and is punched up with additional clarity, EQ, stereo width, and dynamics processing Translation: "AI" can now make all recordings indistinguishable from each other? 'Standards' in art are dangerous.
- fhennig 3y ago
  I think it's probably more if you are not aware of tuning stereo width or stuff like that, it'll get you to a nice "default". But obviously if you're more knowledgable you might tune this yourself. For loudness there are certain "standards": https://support.spotify.com/us/artists/article/loudness-normalization/ https://support.spotify.com/us/artists/article/loudness-norm... - it just makes distribution of your music much easier. There are probably (or soon will be) different presets for mastering a rock track or an EDM track or a jazz track, with different targets for dynamics, loudness etc.
- dist-epoch 3y ago
  A music genre is a "standard"
- jlarcombe 3y ago
  also messing about with stereo width is not (in my experience) a 'default' move in professional mastering. it would be done as a corrective, but only with the say-so of the artist.
ecmascript 3y ago
Since music is mathematical I assume that AI will be much better at creating music in the long run than humans will be.
- j7ake 3y ago
  If music is mathematical, then what isn't mathematical?
  - nottorp 3y ago
    Nothing i guess. Ask anyone who knows music theory, there is a ton of math in music. Source: I randomly socialize with a professional classical musician that does both playing and composing/analysis.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - ecmascript 3y ago
    Well. What I mean is that people have used mathematics in order to create music for a long time. But you're correct that everything is mathematical in a sense. People tend to like the same pieces of music, so there is obviously specific patterns that people generally like. AI is good at finding patterns so in the end AI will become good at creating music. I think.
- barelyauser 3y ago
  It is useful to keep in mind the difference of 'music' and 'musical industry'. Musical industry relies on 'celebrity' and social interactions. It relies very little on its efficiency or performance at 'making music'. People want to hear what person 'X' is singing, and what 'story' they are telling. To the very few that care only about the sound waves, AI will triumph because it will craft music that is perfect for that specific persons taste, and even include other parameters like tone, mood, state of mind, place of residence, weather...
  - ChatGTP 3y ago
    That sounds quite bleak, we're all really going to be living in our own worlds soon aren't we? "Hey did you hear the new album perfectly tailored for me yesterday?...of course you didn't".
fhennig 3y ago
I did a music course last summer and met some prefessional musicians and also sound engineers working for big record labels. I saw specifically LANDR in action. I think like all of these new AI tools, it can be a tool for you to use, but an amateur with untrained ears will still not make "professional-grade" masterings. But you can get maybe 80% there. If you're a hobbyist and don't know anything about mastering and can't afford to pay a professional, this is great!
- viraptor 3y ago
  > untrained ears will still not make "professional-grade" masterings There's quite a few people who hate the modern mastering, so... maybe that's not a bad thing? Also considering the pro grade masters are often aimed for wildly different setup than the cheap earbuds many people will use. I'm not trying to say pros don't know what they're doing. But also, I'd love to see people play a bit more. (Still dreaming of a real release format that contains the raw elements + effects stack) Then again, I'm a weirdo who honestly prefers some accidentally preserved band practice recordings with noise and mistakes and raw energy to their released official albums.
  - jlarcombe 3y ago
    the idea is that if it sounds good on the 'wildly different setup' (i.e. posh speakers in controlled environment) then it will also sound good on cheap earbuds... but not the other way round. to me the whole 'mastering AI' stuff misses at least some of the point of what mastering really is, but i suppose it'll be useful for people doing stuff on their own who wouldn't pay a proper mastering engineer anyway.
    - viraptor 3y ago
      Sometimes true... Sometimes you get Christopher Nolan, with his own quote: > Because you can make a film that looks like anything, you can shoot on your iPhone, no one’s going to complain. But if you mix the sound a certain way, or if you use certain sub-frequencies, people get up in arms.
kierenj 3y ago
LANDR was released in 2014; AI has been mastering music in this way for a decade..
pohl 3y ago
The lyrics of Hair Metal Renaissance promised me a guitar solo, but reneged. I want a pony!
- rob74 3y ago
  Also, AI may now be able to master your song, but if you don't make the guitar loud enough in the mixing stage, it will still sound strange...
drcongo 3y ago
Mastering Assistant in Logic is surprisingly good, but I do still find that I have to tweak the chain going into it to get the best results out. It's remarkably light on the compression so adding a little bit, along with some EQ, before it goes into MA definitely helps on the kinds of music I make.
- pwython 3y ago
  It's been a while since I've made music, but my secret sauce has always been Wave's Abbey Road TG mastering chain (not "AI" but it has tons of nice presets for different genres). I need to test this Logic Mastering Assistant out though to see if they play nice together.
pelagic_sky 3y ago
I've been using Ozone over the last few years for my home masters and even with all the AI and bells and whistles, it's nowhere near as good as a master from a studio who uses analog gear. I will also admit my ears are just not there yet. What it is good for is cutting a demo to send out to labels or DJs to play at shows.
lvl102 3y ago
We need a Blender in the DAW space. Node-based with python scripting. That could be a powerful tool.
- hshsh667 3y ago
  That's more or less Reaper though
  - hotdogscout 3y ago
    Not open source and lacks a ton of features like editing sound waves
- itishappy 3y ago
  For node based workflows, check out Max or Pure Data. https://cycling74.com/products/max https://cycling74.com/products/max https://puredata.info/ https://puredata.info/
samdafi 3y ago
A lot of what these AI tools do would classically be considered trying to “fix” a subpar mix, rather than just mastering. This is often not a super transparent change to the sound. For example, right up front, the first thing Logic’s mastering assistant does is put a full spectrum, highly detailed EQ curve over the track, ostensibly to hit some genre-dependent targets. Then it brags to you about it by graphing out the curve. This is not something many professional mastering engineers would do. Their job often consists of taking all the creative decisions made up to this point in the process and make subtle changes that bring them all out, much like adding the right amount of salt to a dish when cooking or polishing a car that’s already been detailed. They need to do this while making the track loud enough to compete in the consumer market, without crushing the dynamics or adding uncomfortable harshness to the sound. Generally, I think these AI products need to do less, not more, to get better results. That said, this over-zealous AI modification isn’t always a bad thing, as the democratization of music recording has ushered in an era where many more people of various aptitudes are mixing music! But it does mean that AI-based mastering solutions run the risk of ossifying the “sound” of music genres, and while they can gussy up a poor mix, they often clobber a mix that’s already great. I don’t know of many major label albums where any of the tracks were mastered with an AI-based solution, although Ozone is in extensive use in the industry for its non-AI features. Disclaimer: I make a non-AI mastering audio plugin called Master Plan.
m3kw9 3y ago
This will be baked in to apps like Logic Pro or Abelton very soon
- pwython 3y ago
  Mastering Assistant in Logic, as mentioned in the article: https://support.apple.com/guide/logicpro/mastering-assistant-overview-lgcp7f94da0b/mac https://support.apple.com/guide/logicpro/mastering-assistant...
sramsay 3y ago
Just got done mastering a track (a soundtrack for video with voice over). Getting to the appropriate LUFS level with a limiter seems to me something that is easily automated, and I'm not sure you need AI to do it. But as usual, most of the moves I made with EQ, compression, saturation, and so on were creative choices where I was picking from among dozens of different possible tones and vibes (some in my head, some from reference tracks). I guess I don't doubt that AI can master a track if you say "make it sound like a Beyoncé record," and some of the automated tools give you vague choices about how you want it to sound. But for this to really work, I feel like I'd have to sit there going: "Okay, same thing but bring the lower mids up a couple of dB. Try it with a little more air in the top end. Compress those drums, but try not smear the transients on the snares. No wait, go back. Try smearing those transients a bit more." At that point, I'm not sure "mastering as prompt engineering" is worth it. Though I totally agree that things like LANDR and Ozone are great for quick-and-dirty work.

48 points by dudewhocodes 3y ago

Hmm. > the system spits back a song that hits modern loudness standards and is punched up with additional clarity, EQ, stereo width, and dynamics processing Translation: "AI" can now make all recordings indistinguishable from each other? 'Standards' in art are dangerous.

fhennig 3y ago
I think it's probably more if you are not aware of tuning stereo width or stuff like that, it'll get you to a nice "default". But obviously if you're more knowledgable you might tune this yourself. For loudness there are certain "standards": https://support.spotify.com/us/artists/article/loudness-normalization/ https://support.spotify.com/us/artists/article/loudness-norm... - it just makes distribution of your music much easier. There are probably (or soon will be) different presets for mastering a rock track or an EDM track or a jazz track, with different targets for dynamics, loudness etc.
dist-epoch 3y ago
A music genre is a "standard"
jlarcombe 3y ago
also messing about with stereo width is not (in my experience) a 'default' move in professional mastering. it would be done as a corrective, but only with the say-so of the artist.

ecmascript 3y ago

Since music is mathematical I assume that AI will be much better at creating music in the long run than humans will be.

j7ake 3y ago
If music is mathematical, then what isn't mathematical?
- nottorp 3y ago
  Nothing i guess. Ask anyone who knows music theory, there is a ton of math in music. Source: I randomly socialize with a professional classical musician that does both playing and composing/analysis.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- ecmascript 3y ago
  Well. What I mean is that people have used mathematics in order to create music for a long time. But you're correct that everything is mathematical in a sense. People tend to like the same pieces of music, so there is obviously specific patterns that people generally like. AI is good at finding patterns so in the end AI will become good at creating music. I think.
barelyauser 3y ago
It is useful to keep in mind the difference of 'music' and 'musical industry'. Musical industry relies on 'celebrity' and social interactions. It relies very little on its efficiency or performance at 'making music'. People want to hear what person 'X' is singing, and what 'story' they are telling. To the very few that care only about the sound waves, AI will triumph because it will craft music that is perfect for that specific persons taste, and even include other parameters like tone, mood, state of mind, place of residence, weather...
- ChatGTP 3y ago
  That sounds quite bleak, we're all really going to be living in our own worlds soon aren't we? "Hey did you hear the new album perfectly tailored for me yesterday?...of course you didn't".

fhennig 3y ago

I did a music course last summer and met some prefessional musicians and also sound engineers working for big record labels. I saw specifically LANDR in action. I think like all of these new AI tools, it can be a tool for you to use, but an amateur with untrained ears will still not make "professional-grade" masterings. But you can get maybe 80% there. If you're a hobbyist and don't know anything about mastering and can't afford to pay a professional, this is great!

viraptor 3y ago
> untrained ears will still not make "professional-grade" masterings There's quite a few people who hate the modern mastering, so... maybe that's not a bad thing? Also considering the pro grade masters are often aimed for wildly different setup than the cheap earbuds many people will use. I'm not trying to say pros don't know what they're doing. But also, I'd love to see people play a bit more. (Still dreaming of a real release format that contains the raw elements + effects stack) Then again, I'm a weirdo who honestly prefers some accidentally preserved band practice recordings with noise and mistakes and raw energy to their released official albums.
- jlarcombe 3y ago
  the idea is that if it sounds good on the 'wildly different setup' (i.e. posh speakers in controlled environment) then it will also sound good on cheap earbuds... but not the other way round. to me the whole 'mastering AI' stuff misses at least some of the point of what mastering really is, but i suppose it'll be useful for people doing stuff on their own who wouldn't pay a proper mastering engineer anyway.
  - viraptor 3y ago
    Sometimes true... Sometimes you get Christopher Nolan, with his own quote: > Because you can make a film that looks like anything, you can shoot on your iPhone, no one’s going to complain. But if you mix the sound a certain way, or if you use certain sub-frequencies, people get up in arms.

kierenj 3y ago

LANDR was released in 2014; AI has been mastering music in this way for a decade..

pohl 3y ago

The lyrics of Hair Metal Renaissance promised me a guitar solo, but reneged. I want a pony!

rob74 3y ago
Also, AI may now be able to master your song, but if you don't make the guitar loud enough in the mixing stage, it will still sound strange...

drcongo 3y ago

Mastering Assistant in Logic is surprisingly good, but I do still find that I have to tweak the chain going into it to get the best results out. It's remarkably light on the compression so adding a little bit, along with some EQ, before it goes into MA definitely helps on the kinds of music I make.

pwython 3y ago
It's been a while since I've made music, but my secret sauce has always been Wave's Abbey Road TG mastering chain (not "AI" but it has tons of nice presets for different genres). I need to test this Logic Mastering Assistant out though to see if they play nice together.

pelagic_sky 3y ago

I've been using Ozone over the last few years for my home masters and even with all the AI and bells and whistles, it's nowhere near as good as a master from a studio who uses analog gear. I will also admit my ears are just not there yet. What it is good for is cutting a demo to send out to labels or DJs to play at shows.

lvl102 3y ago

We need a Blender in the DAW space. Node-based with python scripting. That could be a powerful tool.

hshsh667 3y ago
That's more or less Reaper though
- hotdogscout 3y ago
  Not open source and lacks a ton of features like editing sound waves
itishappy 3y ago
For node based workflows, check out Max or Pure Data. https://cycling74.com/products/max https://cycling74.com/products/max https://puredata.info/ https://puredata.info/

samdafi 3y ago

A lot of what these AI tools do would classically be considered trying to “fix” a subpar mix, rather than just mastering. This is often not a super transparent change to the sound. For example, right up front, the first thing Logic’s mastering assistant does is put a full spectrum, highly detailed EQ curve over the track, ostensibly to hit some genre-dependent targets. Then it brags to you about it by graphing out the curve. This is not something many professional mastering engineers would do. Their job often consists of taking all the creative decisions made up to this point in the process and make subtle changes that bring them all out, much like adding the right amount of salt to a dish when cooking or polishing a car that’s already been detailed. They need to do this while making the track loud enough to compete in the consumer market, without crushing the dynamics or adding uncomfortable harshness to the sound. Generally, I think these AI products need to do less, not more, to get better results. That said, this over-zealous AI modification isn’t always a bad thing, as the democratization of music recording has ushered in an era where many more people of various aptitudes are mixing music! But it does mean that AI-based mastering solutions run the risk of ossifying the “sound” of music genres, and while they can gussy up a poor mix, they often clobber a mix that’s already great. I don’t know of many major label albums where any of the tracks were mastered with an AI-based solution, although Ozone is in extensive use in the industry for its non-AI features. Disclaimer: I make a non-AI mastering audio plugin called Master Plan.

m3kw9 3y ago

This will be baked in to apps like Logic Pro or Abelton very soon

pwython 3y ago
Mastering Assistant in Logic, as mentioned in the article: https://support.apple.com/guide/logicpro/mastering-assistant-overview-lgcp7f94da0b/mac https://support.apple.com/guide/logicpro/mastering-assistant...

sramsay 3y ago

Just got done mastering a track (a soundtrack for video with voice over). Getting to the appropriate LUFS level with a limiter seems to me something that is easily automated, and I'm not sure you need AI to do it. But as usual, most of the moves I made with EQ, compression, saturation, and so on were creative choices where I was picking from among dozens of different possible tones and vibes (some in my head, some from reference tracks). I guess I don't doubt that AI can master a track if you say "make it sound like a Beyoncé record," and some of the automated tools give you vague choices about how you want it to sound. But for this to really work, I feel like I'd have to sit there going: "Okay, same thing but bring the lower mids up a couple of dB. Try it with a little more air in the top end. Compress those drums, but try not smear the transients on the snares. No wait, go back. Try smearing those transients a bit more." At that point, I'm not sure "mastering as prompt engineering" is worth it. Though I totally agree that things like LANDR and Ozone are great for quick-and-dirty work.