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For those that like Chromium but want to remove any integration with Google, there's Ungoogled Chromium https://github.com/ungoogled-software/ungoogled-chromiu

For those that like Chromium but want to remove any integration with Google, there's Ungoogled Chromium https://github.com/ungoogled-software/ungoogled-chromium https://github.com/ungoogled-software/ungoogled-chromium > Brave is run by a homophobic, anti-vax crypto clown. I won’t dignify it here with a link. Brave is a decent browser, I don't understand why would you care who created it. Attacking author's persona and not the technology itself really reeks of bias

smoldesu 3y ago
> I don't understand why would you care who created it. I mean Brendan Eich is pretty bad, but their kerfuffle with Tom Scott[0] is what scared me off for good. I wouldn't feel comfortable recommending software that manipulates the likeness of a third-party to promote a product. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18734999 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18734999
deathanatos 3y ago
> Attacking author's persona and not the technology itself really reeks of bias Some people can separate creation from creator, and some people feel it's the fruit of a poisonous tree. I'm personally not sure I'm convinced which is the better view. Since it's their personal blog … I think they're entitled to express that view, there? They still listed that browser, and it's inherently Googleable… Regardless, "bias" doesn't seem to me to be the right word here. (To describe the blogger, given that their remarks appear based on observed evidence, not prejudice.)
- renegat0x0 3y ago
  It is not only that I think. The author makes more shallow opinionanated arguments. Title says 'browsers are weird'. Edge is for unopinionated Windows users. Author writes and thinks in labels. Focuses on emotiions and dramas instead of using science and engineering to compare. It may be a private blog, but it does not appear to be that interesting in merit.
  - mkerrigan 3y ago
    The people who work on Brave don't really have anything to do with Brendan Eich's political beliefs. You can also disable the crypto component.
  - the_third_wave 3y ago
    > Author writes and thinks in labels Author engages in identity politics [1] which can be described as an exercise in labelling everything, attaching value statements - positive and negative - to those labels and thereby reducing every possible question to a simple calculation. [1] a utopian socialist variant of 'scientific socialism' in which economic values have been replaced by social ones. Like its counterpart any attempt at implementing these ideas in the real world end up in failure since the inhabitants of the real world do not behave according to how the models predict they should - neither Homo Sovieticus nor Homo Arcopluvius exist in the real world.
    - smoldesu 3y ago
      [flagged]
esperent 3y ago
> For those that like Chromium but want to remove any integration with Google, there's Ungoogled Chromium I already use Chromium rather than Chrome (with FF as my main browser). What are the real world effects of using Ungoogled Chromium rather than Chromium? Am I going to run into problems with DRM or signing in to website? Or installing extensions?
- qweqwe14 3y ago
  For extensions you basically install Chrome Web Store extension (via Load Unpacked), and then you can use that to install and update other extensions. It's explained in the GitHub page AFAIK. Signing in to websites will work fine since it doesn't depend on Google. Regarding DRM: I never really used anything that required it so I don't know, but you can go to Issues on the GitHub page and search for "Widevine", "DRM" etc Edit: Here's the FAQ https://ungoogled-software.github.io/ungoogled-chromium-wiki/faq https://ungoogled-software.github.io/ungoogled-chromium-wiki...
- jraph 3y ago
  Depending on where you get Chromium from, it might actually be closer to Ungoogled Chromium IIUC. From Debian for instance. At least in its default settings.
jraph 3y ago
> I don't understand why would you care who created it The question of separating the artist from the person is not new. Let's try anyway. Not speaking for Brave / Eich, but more generally (because I want my point to be general, not specific to Brave / Eich and I don't want this specific instance to weaken my more general point). Say you support cause C. Say someone S makes useful product P. You know S hurts cause C (or pushes shitty thing !C), personally. And you know product P brings income to S (since it's their business), making S more powerful. You may think using P hurts cause C, thus you may want to avoid P. Or you may want to avoid P to make a point, symbolically. If only to discourage other people to act the same way. Let's take Picasso for instance. He was an asshole [1]. He was atrocious with one or several of his friends. He broke the lives of many people including his numerous partners and raped them. Should you separate the artist from the person? You may already be convinced this is enough to want to avoid promoting Picasso or his art so you don't glorify the horrible stuff he could get away with, so future artists are not encouraged in such bad behavior for instance. Or you may not, thinking that the art exists now, and somewhat stands for itself. Turns out you actually can't really separate: looking closer, a big part of the art is related to his rapes anyway. Art does not live in a vacuum and is indeed connected to its artist: it's a reflection of the artist's life. There might be something in how Product P works or is done that still could indirectly hurt cause C, in addition to bringing money to person S which may itself hurt C. In a way, it may be a matter of voting with one's wallet. This stuff may or may not apply to Brave, I tried to justify why you might (want to) care where some product comes from more generally. Of course there are many products where someone working on it is an asshole in their personal life and you just don't know about it. You might even have someone helping cause C working on product P. Now, if S notoriously hurts C, maybe there are people for C avoiding working for S (on P) and this can create a weird culture around P. Things can be a bit complicated. Moreover, in a way, unlike your average person you may not know about, Eich chose to be public about some of the stuff he gets criticism for and so far never backtracked on this to my knowledge (because he could have). This also puts it to the next level for some. [1] I can't vouch for any specific English source, but looking up "Picasso asshole" seems to yield numerous results. French speakers may like this video from "C'est une autre histoire": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsuLpUTs50c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsuLpUTs50c

smoldesu 3y ago

> I don't understand why would you care who created it. I mean Brendan Eich is pretty bad, but their kerfuffle with Tom Scott[0] is what scared me off for good. I wouldn't feel comfortable recommending software that manipulates the likeness of a third-party to promote a product. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18734999 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18734999

deathanatos 3y ago

> Attacking author's persona and not the technology itself really reeks of bias Some people can separate creation from creator, and some people feel it's the fruit of a poisonous tree. I'm personally not sure I'm convinced which is the better view. Since it's their personal blog … I think they're entitled to express that view, there? They still listed that browser, and it's inherently Googleable… Regardless, "bias" doesn't seem to me to be the right word here. (To describe the blogger, given that their remarks appear based on observed evidence, not prejudice.)

renegat0x0 3y ago
It is not only that I think. The author makes more shallow opinionanated arguments. Title says 'browsers are weird'. Edge is for unopinionated Windows users. Author writes and thinks in labels. Focuses on emotiions and dramas instead of using science and engineering to compare. It may be a private blog, but it does not appear to be that interesting in merit.
- mkerrigan 3y ago
  The people who work on Brave don't really have anything to do with Brendan Eich's political beliefs. You can also disable the crypto component.
- the_third_wave 3y ago
  > Author writes and thinks in labels Author engages in identity politics [1] which can be described as an exercise in labelling everything, attaching value statements - positive and negative - to those labels and thereby reducing every possible question to a simple calculation. [1] a utopian socialist variant of 'scientific socialism' in which economic values have been replaced by social ones. Like its counterpart any attempt at implementing these ideas in the real world end up in failure since the inhabitants of the real world do not behave according to how the models predict they should - neither Homo Sovieticus nor Homo Arcopluvius exist in the real world.
  - smoldesu 3y ago
    [flagged]

esperent 3y ago

> For those that like Chromium but want to remove any integration with Google, there's Ungoogled Chromium I already use Chromium rather than Chrome (with FF as my main browser). What are the real world effects of using Ungoogled Chromium rather than Chromium? Am I going to run into problems with DRM or signing in to website? Or installing extensions?

qweqwe14 3y ago
For extensions you basically install Chrome Web Store extension (via Load Unpacked), and then you can use that to install and update other extensions. It's explained in the GitHub page AFAIK. Signing in to websites will work fine since it doesn't depend on Google. Regarding DRM: I never really used anything that required it so I don't know, but you can go to Issues on the GitHub page and search for "Widevine", "DRM" etc Edit: Here's the FAQ https://ungoogled-software.github.io/ungoogled-chromium-wiki/faq https://ungoogled-software.github.io/ungoogled-chromium-wiki...
jraph 3y ago
Depending on where you get Chromium from, it might actually be closer to Ungoogled Chromium IIUC. From Debian for instance. At least in its default settings.

jraph 3y ago

> I don't understand why would you care who created it The question of separating the artist from the person is not new. Let's try anyway. Not speaking for Brave / Eich, but more generally (because I want my point to be general, not specific to Brave / Eich and I don't want this specific instance to weaken my more general point). Say you support cause C. Say someone S makes useful product P. You know S hurts cause C (or pushes shitty thing !C), personally. And you know product P brings income to S (since it's their business), making S more powerful. You may think using P hurts cause C, thus you may want to avoid P. Or you may want to avoid P to make a point, symbolically. If only to discourage other people to act the same way. Let's take Picasso for instance. He was an asshole [1]. He was atrocious with one or several of his friends. He broke the lives of many people including his numerous partners and raped them. Should you separate the artist from the person? You may already be convinced this is enough to want to avoid promoting Picasso or his art so you don't glorify the horrible stuff he could get away with, so future artists are not encouraged in such bad behavior for instance. Or you may not, thinking that the art exists now, and somewhat stands for itself. Turns out you actually can't really separate: looking closer, a big part of the art is related to his rapes anyway. Art does not live in a vacuum and is indeed connected to its artist: it's a reflection of the artist's life. There might be something in how Product P works or is done that still could indirectly hurt cause C, in addition to bringing money to person S which may itself hurt C. In a way, it may be a matter of voting with one's wallet. This stuff may or may not apply to Brave, I tried to justify why you might (want to) care where some product comes from more generally. Of course there are many products where someone working on it is an asshole in their personal life and you just don't know about it. You might even have someone helping cause C working on product P. Now, if S notoriously hurts C, maybe there are people for C avoiding working for S (on P) and this can create a weird culture around P. Things can be a bit complicated. Moreover, in a way, unlike your average person you may not know about, Eich chose to be public about some of the stuff he gets criticism for and so far never backtracked on this to my knowledge (because he could have). This also puts it to the next level for some. [1] I can't vouch for any specific English source, but looking up "Picasso asshole" seems to yield numerous results. French speakers may like this video from "C'est une autre histoire": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsuLpUTs50c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsuLpUTs50c