6 ms·

> His most famous piece, 4'33", is designed to be played by any combination of instruments - but musicians are instructed not to play them. This is even better

by koolba 3y ago

> His most famous piece, 4'33", is designed to be played by any combination of instruments - but musicians are instructed not to play them. This is even better played back from a digital recording. You need those gold audio cables to truly appreciate the silence.

speed_spread 3y ago
You jest but there is still something to be heard if it's actually recorded (and not just generated as zeroes), be it in a studio or live. The settings of any performance are themselves part of the performance.
- rho138 3y ago
  I immediately think of the A Perfect Circle recording done at Red Rocks where the acoustics off the rock formations give an extra depth to the noise. Still one of my favorite live albums of all time.
omoikane 3y ago
John Cage's 4'33" is probably one of the best jokes in music. I personally learned about 4'33" in a music class, where it was performed live -- basically it was 4'33" of ambient noise, but there was a lot of tension if you didn't know what to expect. During the final exam for the class, the professor would play some recording and we were supposed to identify the music, and all of us would start writing "John Cage's 4 minutes 33 seconds" when the professor was too slow to start the next song. There was also an incident where apparently Mike Batt copied 4'33" and named his song "A One Minute Silence", which resulted in an 6-figure court settlement[1], although later news said it was just £1000[2]. I also heard a version of the story that they didn't settle at all, because John Cage's publishers couldn't prove which minute out of the 4'33" was copied. [1] https://edition.cnn.com/2002/SHOWBIZ/Music/09/23/uk.silence/ https://edition.cnn.com/2002/SHOWBIZ/Music/09/23/uk.silence/ [2] https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-hampshire-11964995 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-hampshire-11964995
- ahazred8ta 3y ago
  In Cage's original performances, he had a page turner. No joke.
  - rvense 3y ago
    And he performed it on Times Square in New York.
- SOLAR_FIELDS 3y ago
  Is there a test of originality for copyright? I wouldn’t call myself vehemently anti copyright but when the idea of “let’s just not play and the ambient sound of the orchestra sitting there is music instead” is the basis for the copyright it does make me question the validity of it. When someone who has done XYZ drug of choice and can come up with that idea in their drug addled state of mind as a pretty good first pass (if I were to to smoke marijuana and you asked me of a clever avant garde music idea, the concept of 4’33’’ is probably be one of the top three I would just list right off the bat not knowing of Cage) I really do question whether you should be able to copyright that idea. It’s even a bit of a hippie meme “what if the music is everything around us? Har har” By the way I love 4’33” and don’t denigrate it - the way Cage executed the idea is flawless - which is one of the reasons it’s so timeless. I just don’t think it’s something you can copyright. And indeed, the stories you linked indicate that, though rather than point out the ridiculousness of the situation they simply used it as a money and publicity making opportunity.
  - dls2016 3y ago
    I think "transformative use" is the term you're looking for. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformative_use https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformative_use
    - SOLAR_FIELDS 3y ago
      This is a good one, but I think my point is that the original doesn’t stand up to copyright in the first place - so transformative use wouldn’t apply if that was the case
eslaught 3y ago
I thought the point was that they would intentionally seed the audience with one or a couple of people who would storm out in (apparent) anger (if none of the actual audience members got to it first), and thus the music is the experience of the audience reaction to the piece.
- dizhn 3y ago
  I watched a performance of it on YouTube. The performance is the little coughs and sighs and creaks etc that we don't normally hear. I don't think it has a theatral component which needs people to storm out.
verisimi 3y ago
You've got to respect high level trolling, it's an art form.
ysofunny 3y ago
but it's also the easiest piece you can possibly perform, so you can always sing it to yourself and your version will be as good as anybody else's

by koolba 3y ago

speed_spread 3y ago

You jest but there is still something to be heard if it's actually recorded (and not just generated as zeroes), be it in a studio or live. The settings of any performance are themselves part of the performance.

rho138 3y ago
I immediately think of the A Perfect Circle recording done at Red Rocks where the acoustics off the rock formations give an extra depth to the noise. Still one of my favorite live albums of all time.

omoikane 3y ago

John Cage's 4'33" is probably one of the best jokes in music. I personally learned about 4'33" in a music class, where it was performed live -- basically it was 4'33" of ambient noise, but there was a lot of tension if you didn't know what to expect. During the final exam for the class, the professor would play some recording and we were supposed to identify the music, and all of us would start writing "John Cage's 4 minutes 33 seconds" when the professor was too slow to start the next song. There was also an incident where apparently Mike Batt copied 4'33" and named his song "A One Minute Silence", which resulted in an 6-figure court settlement[1], although later news said it was just £1000[2]. I also heard a version of the story that they didn't settle at all, because John Cage's publishers couldn't prove which minute out of the 4'33" was copied. [1] https://edition.cnn.com/2002/SHOWBIZ/Music/09/23/uk.silence/ https://edition.cnn.com/2002/SHOWBIZ/Music/09/23/uk.silence/ [2] https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-hampshire-11964995 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-hampshire-11964995

ahazred8ta 3y ago
In Cage's original performances, he had a page turner. No joke.
- rvense 3y ago
  And he performed it on Times Square in New York.
SOLAR_FIELDS 3y ago
Is there a test of originality for copyright? I wouldn’t call myself vehemently anti copyright but when the idea of “let’s just not play and the ambient sound of the orchestra sitting there is music instead” is the basis for the copyright it does make me question the validity of it. When someone who has done XYZ drug of choice and can come up with that idea in their drug addled state of mind as a pretty good first pass (if I were to to smoke marijuana and you asked me of a clever avant garde music idea, the concept of 4’33’’ is probably be one of the top three I would just list right off the bat not knowing of Cage) I really do question whether you should be able to copyright that idea. It’s even a bit of a hippie meme “what if the music is everything around us? Har har” By the way I love 4’33” and don’t denigrate it - the way Cage executed the idea is flawless - which is one of the reasons it’s so timeless. I just don’t think it’s something you can copyright. And indeed, the stories you linked indicate that, though rather than point out the ridiculousness of the situation they simply used it as a money and publicity making opportunity.
- dls2016 3y ago
  I think "transformative use" is the term you're looking for. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformative_use https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformative_use
  - SOLAR_FIELDS 3y ago
    This is a good one, but I think my point is that the original doesn’t stand up to copyright in the first place - so transformative use wouldn’t apply if that was the case

eslaught 3y ago

I thought the point was that they would intentionally seed the audience with one or a couple of people who would storm out in (apparent) anger (if none of the actual audience members got to it first), and thus the music is the experience of the audience reaction to the piece.

dizhn 3y ago
I watched a performance of it on YouTube. The performance is the little coughs and sighs and creaks etc that we don't normally hear. I don't think it has a theatral component which needs people to storm out.

verisimi 3y ago

You've got to respect high level trolling, it's an art form.

ysofunny 3y ago

but it's also the easiest piece you can possibly perform, so you can always sing it to yourself and your version will be as good as anybody else's