3 ms·

In the USA you have the fifth amendment right against self incrimination. Also you have NO obligation to say anything to police in an interrogation and can alw

In the USA you have the fifth amendment right against self incrimination. Also you have NO obligation to say anything to police in an interrogation and can always request an attorney to speak on your behalf. Subjects are reminded of this during the reading of Miranda Rights. If you are ever in a police interrogation you should always decline to speak without an attorney. It is bewildering why people don't exercise their rights.

rolph 3y ago
--"because if you cooperate with us, everything will go easy, if you keep resisting, thats proof of guilt and youll get the max, plus charges for resisting"
theturtle32 3y ago
It's not bewildering. There are an awful lot of people out there who were raised to trust police as "the good guys" and it's extremely easy for those people to be manipulated into what they think will be a quick interview to help out in solving a case, only to have the spotlight turned on them before they realize what's happening.
pixl97 3y ago
Because in most places cops are liars beyond what you'd ever believe. Civil rights violations are simply status quo. I come from a family with members in law enforcement and the criminal justice system. They have had to kick detectives out of interrogation rooms because the detectives get abusive and simply ignore "I'd like to speak to my attorney". The cops just won't stop harassing, lying, and even abusing the suspect. Most people are not going to do well in a stressful situation with a person in a position of authority abusing them. And our criminal justice system here in the US is ok with that.
kjellsbells 3y ago
Let's try this thought experiment. You are shopping at a grocery store. It's a regular day in your life. Then, without warning, you are arrested by the cops and taken to the police station. They put you in the holding cell. They take your laptop, phone, etc. You ask for your one call. They lead you to the wall mounted phone and you stick your quarter in. What percentage of the HN readership here would be able to dial the number of a competent criminal attorney? Engagement with the criminal justice system is so out of the ordinary for most people that they simply do not know what to do. It's easy to say, "shut up and call your lawyer", but most regular joes have absolutely no idea how to find a lawyer, vet them, engage with them, etc. In normal life, if you need a lawyer, you Google some reviews, or you look up something in yellow pages, or you ask your local state bar association for a referral for the area of legal practice. None of those things are happening at 2am in a holding cell without any of your regular devices. And asking for the public defender is not likely to give you much comfort given their caseload. Now imagine that you are not the classic affluent educated HN reader with access to all kinds of resources, and consider what it must be like for working class people. It's not fun.
- rokkitmensch 3y ago
  You don't call a lawyer, you call the most competent person whose phone number you can remember and tell them to get a lawyer. Ideally, you have a relationship with one or more, but if you don't come from an upper middle class background with a refined appreciation for insurance policies, now is the time you call your most competent contact and beg them to get the ball rolling on a lawyer and bail.
- mlrtime 3y ago
  Part of Miranda is that the state will obtain a lawyer for you. It might be a shit lawyer that just wants to plea, but it stops the self incrimination part.
  - morpheos137 3y ago
    Yeah and if the shit lawyer doesn't do his job then you have grounds for appeal. Always trust your lawyer to handle your legal business. Should be taught in schools with civic lessons. You literally have nothing to gain from talking to police without a lawyer if you are detained.
kmoser 3y ago
People don't exercise their rights when a) they are not informed of them, and b) they're under duress. What's more bewildering is why juries (who are not facing jail time themselves) don't find defendants innocent in every case involving the police since it's known that the police are allowed to lie, and it's also known they will face little to no repercussions from doing so even under oath.
- 20after4 3y ago
  The people that get picked for a jury (that make it through all the rounds of vetting) are the types of people who believe the 'justice system' is fundamentally just and that the police are public servants. The people who see through that are filtered out or filter themselves out of the process.
- morpheos137 3y ago
  This strikes me as an absurd Reddit tier statement. How many criminal cases do not involve police? You are suggesting juries should throw out ALL cases involving police?
  - kmoser 3y ago
    I'm not saying what anybody should do. I'm saying I'm surprised juries don't throw out more cases, given the latitude police have for lying during interrogations and the lack of repercussions for doing so under oath.
krapp 3y ago
Just don't ask for a "lawyer, dawg" because that will be interpreted as a literal request for a canine that practices law, which doesn't exist[0]. [0]https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2017/10/suspect-asks-for-a-lawyer-dawg-judge-says-he-asked-for-a-lawyer-dog.html https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2017/10/suspect-asks-for... Fifth amendment rights in the US are a joke.
int_19h 3y ago
I suggest reading about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reid_technique https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reid_technique. There's a reason why it's being used, and there's also a reason why many false confessions are attributed to it. Or we can blame the victims.

rolph 3y ago

--"because if you cooperate with us, everything will go easy, if you keep resisting, thats proof of guilt and youll get the max, plus charges for resisting"

theturtle32 3y ago

It's not bewildering. There are an awful lot of people out there who were raised to trust police as "the good guys" and it's extremely easy for those people to be manipulated into what they think will be a quick interview to help out in solving a case, only to have the spotlight turned on them before they realize what's happening.

pixl97 3y ago

Because in most places cops are liars beyond what you'd ever believe. Civil rights violations are simply status quo. I come from a family with members in law enforcement and the criminal justice system. They have had to kick detectives out of interrogation rooms because the detectives get abusive and simply ignore "I'd like to speak to my attorney". The cops just won't stop harassing, lying, and even abusing the suspect. Most people are not going to do well in a stressful situation with a person in a position of authority abusing them. And our criminal justice system here in the US is ok with that.

kjellsbells 3y ago

Let's try this thought experiment. You are shopping at a grocery store. It's a regular day in your life. Then, without warning, you are arrested by the cops and taken to the police station. They put you in the holding cell. They take your laptop, phone, etc. You ask for your one call. They lead you to the wall mounted phone and you stick your quarter in. What percentage of the HN readership here would be able to dial the number of a competent criminal attorney? Engagement with the criminal justice system is so out of the ordinary for most people that they simply do not know what to do. It's easy to say, "shut up and call your lawyer", but most regular joes have absolutely no idea how to find a lawyer, vet them, engage with them, etc. In normal life, if you need a lawyer, you Google some reviews, or you look up something in yellow pages, or you ask your local state bar association for a referral for the area of legal practice. None of those things are happening at 2am in a holding cell without any of your regular devices. And asking for the public defender is not likely to give you much comfort given their caseload. Now imagine that you are not the classic affluent educated HN reader with access to all kinds of resources, and consider what it must be like for working class people. It's not fun.

rokkitmensch 3y ago
You don't call a lawyer, you call the most competent person whose phone number you can remember and tell them to get a lawyer. Ideally, you have a relationship with one or more, but if you don't come from an upper middle class background with a refined appreciation for insurance policies, now is the time you call your most competent contact and beg them to get the ball rolling on a lawyer and bail.
mlrtime 3y ago
Part of Miranda is that the state will obtain a lawyer for you. It might be a shit lawyer that just wants to plea, but it stops the self incrimination part.
- morpheos137 3y ago
  Yeah and if the shit lawyer doesn't do his job then you have grounds for appeal. Always trust your lawyer to handle your legal business. Should be taught in schools with civic lessons. You literally have nothing to gain from talking to police without a lawyer if you are detained.

kmoser 3y ago

People don't exercise their rights when a) they are not informed of them, and b) they're under duress. What's more bewildering is why juries (who are not facing jail time themselves) don't find defendants innocent in every case involving the police since it's known that the police are allowed to lie, and it's also known they will face little to no repercussions from doing so even under oath.

20after4 3y ago
The people that get picked for a jury (that make it through all the rounds of vetting) are the types of people who believe the 'justice system' is fundamentally just and that the police are public servants. The people who see through that are filtered out or filter themselves out of the process.
morpheos137 3y ago
This strikes me as an absurd Reddit tier statement. How many criminal cases do not involve police? You are suggesting juries should throw out ALL cases involving police?
- kmoser 3y ago
  I'm not saying what anybody should do. I'm saying I'm surprised juries don't throw out more cases, given the latitude police have for lying during interrogations and the lack of repercussions for doing so under oath.

krapp 3y ago

Just don't ask for a "lawyer, dawg" because that will be interpreted as a literal request for a canine that practices law, which doesn't exist[0]. [0]https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2017/10/suspect-asks-for-a-lawyer-dawg-judge-says-he-asked-for-a-lawyer-dog.html https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2017/10/suspect-asks-for... Fifth amendment rights in the US are a joke.

int_19h 3y ago

I suggest reading about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reid_technique https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reid_technique. There's a reason why it's being used, and there's also a reason why many false confessions are attributed to it. Or we can blame the victims.