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> into opposition from religious fanatics Or opposition who know just how many times national IDs have been used as a tool for oppression and murder. Hint: a

> into opposition from religious fanatics Or opposition who know just how many times national IDs have been used as a tool for oppression and murder. Hint: a lot. Not just in Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union, either. The Hutus and Tutsis in Rwanda look pretty much the same, and even speak the same language. Rwanda had a national ID card system that identified which one you were, which made matters much simpler for the genocidal murders. South Africa had "passbooks", used to enforce the infamous "pass laws". And so on. Dismissing those concerned about privacy as "religious fanatics" is both unfair and incorrect.

AdamH12113 3y ago
I am not "dismissing" anyone as anything. I am talking about literal religious fanatics who have the same opposition to things like UPC codes[1] and credit cards[2] and COVID vaccines[3] and who knows what else. I'm not sure how a state-level database is supposed to be safer in real life. The idea that state governments are somehow less dangerous to minority groups than the federal government conflicts with large swaths of US history. [1] https://www.wired.com/2012/12/upc-mark-of-the-beast/ https://www.wired.com/2012/12/upc-mark-of-the-beast/ [2] https://www2.cbn.com/article/finances/are-credit-cards-associated-mark-beast https://www2.cbn.com/article/finances/are-credit-cards-assoc... [3] https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/09/26/covid-vaccine-mark-beast-what-book-revelation-says/8255268002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/09/26/covid-...
- Muromec 3y ago
  >I'm not sure how a state-level database is supposed to be safer in real life. It will be relevant in a very improbable case the states would be at war with each other. It's an odd threat scenario to optimize for, but maybe something like that happened already and people are still not happy about the result. I dunno.
  - Turing_Machine 3y ago
    > It will be relevant in a very improbable case the states would be at war with each other. You do realize that's actually happened before, right?
    - Muromec 3y ago
      The sound of woosh just happened
- Turing_Machine 3y ago
  > I am not "dismissing" anyone as anything. Yes, you are. You're lumping everyone opposed to a national ID into the category of "religious fanatics". > I'm not sure how a state-level database is supposed to be safer in real life. Because mitigates the potential number of victims. The population of the United States is about 330 million. The population of California (the most populous state) is only about 39 million. Now, some states would cooperate with a potential tyranny, and hand over their databases. Others... would not.
digging 3y ago
Wouldn't robust structures that discourage or prevent such abuses be a better solution than not doing anything at all and still having discrimination? If we were really that worried why are we okay with passports, state driver's licenses, etc.?
- metalcrow 3y ago
  Ideally you want both, this is just one of many types of structures used to reduce the likelihood of such events happening. As for why we have any id at all, there is a degree of risk vs reward that has to be traded off, and this current point along the equilibrium has worked well so far.

AdamH12113 3y ago

I am not "dismissing" anyone as anything. I am talking about literal religious fanatics who have the same opposition to things like UPC codes[1] and credit cards[2] and COVID vaccines[3] and who knows what else. I'm not sure how a state-level database is supposed to be safer in real life. The idea that state governments are somehow less dangerous to minority groups than the federal government conflicts with large swaths of US history. [1] https://www.wired.com/2012/12/upc-mark-of-the-beast/ https://www.wired.com/2012/12/upc-mark-of-the-beast/ [2] https://www2.cbn.com/article/finances/are-credit-cards-associated-mark-beast https://www2.cbn.com/article/finances/are-credit-cards-assoc... [3] https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/09/26/covid-vaccine-mark-beast-what-book-revelation-says/8255268002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/09/26/covid-...

Muromec 3y ago
>I'm not sure how a state-level database is supposed to be safer in real life. It will be relevant in a very improbable case the states would be at war with each other. It's an odd threat scenario to optimize for, but maybe something like that happened already and people are still not happy about the result. I dunno.
- Turing_Machine 3y ago
  > It will be relevant in a very improbable case the states would be at war with each other. You do realize that's actually happened before, right?
  - Muromec 3y ago
    The sound of woosh just happened
Turing_Machine 3y ago
> I am not "dismissing" anyone as anything. Yes, you are. You're lumping everyone opposed to a national ID into the category of "religious fanatics". > I'm not sure how a state-level database is supposed to be safer in real life. Because mitigates the potential number of victims. The population of the United States is about 330 million. The population of California (the most populous state) is only about 39 million. Now, some states would cooperate with a potential tyranny, and hand over their databases. Others... would not.

digging 3y ago

Wouldn't robust structures that discourage or prevent such abuses be a better solution than not doing anything at all and still having discrimination? If we were really that worried why are we okay with passports, state driver's licenses, etc.?

metalcrow 3y ago
Ideally you want both, this is just one of many types of structures used to reduce the likelihood of such events happening. As for why we have any id at all, there is a degree of risk vs reward that has to be traded off, and this current point along the equilibrium has worked well so far.