9 ms·

KoBold Metals says Zambia copper find largest in a century

32 points by jocho12 3y ago

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
schiffern 3y ago
[flagged]
- atlasunshrugged 3y ago
  I'm not sure I understand your comment, this article is specifically about KoBold, a startup which has just received venture funding (semi-recently) from Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos. It isn't implying that they owned the mine or were able to build their businesses from the gains from the mining. I assume both of them funded the company because sourcing minerals necessary to transition to renewables is a priority, whether for personal or business reasons. https://news.crunchbase.com/ai-robotics/cleantech-kobold-bill-gates-jeff-bezos-unicorn/ https://news.crunchbase.com/ai-robotics/cleantech-kobold-bil...
  - schiffern 3y ago
    >It isn't implying that they owned the mine That's what "venture funding" is, by definition. >It isn't implying that they owned the mine or were able to build their businesses from the gains from the mining It isn't clear why this distinction should matter, ethically speaking.
    - atlasunshrugged 3y ago
      They own equity in a company that owns part of the mine, they don't own it outright. On your second point, I thought the whole complaint from people about Elon was that he wasn't actually "self-made" because he benefitted from the gains of the mine and had a privileged upbringing. If you just think owning mines in general is unethical, I'm really not sure what to say.
      - schiffern 3y ago
        > They own equity in a company that owns part of the mine, they don't own it outright. Of course, but it's a distinction without a difference. >the whole complaint from people about Elon was that he wasn't actually "self-made" because he benefitted from the gains of the mine and had a privileged upbringing. Yep. Not only is this claim factually false, but (as you point out) it doesn't make any sense because there isn't any inherent ethical problem with mining.
ganzuul 3y ago
Neat. Copper is expensive. Good find.
- latchkey 3y ago
  Another way to look at it. Hopefully the find brings the price of copper down so it is less attractive to thieves who steal it and interrupt infrastructure projects. https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-01-27/la-me-copper-wire-theft-task-force https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-01-27/la-me-co...
  - Terr_ 3y ago
    I'd argue that's less of raw-materials issue and more of a "fencing stolen goods on a black market" one. Thieves are less sensitive to the prices somebody else is paying.
- schiffern 3y ago
  >Copper is expensive. The double-edged sword is, this also makes it famously dirty. This is structural, not incidental. An iron deposit is only viable at 20% iron (4 tons of slag for every ton of product), but copper is viable at 1% (99 tons of slag for every ton of product).
  - arcticbull 3y ago
    Apparently it as high as 150t of ore per 1t of copper, and yeah it's an environmental disaster. [1] I can't help but feel this discoveries are such a mixed blessing for developing countries, when even Western countries do such a bad job of controlling for bad environmental outcomes. [2] As with rare earths, it feels like a good way to get clean outcomes at home and export and concentrate the environmental implications abroad. [3] [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5579155/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5579155/ [2] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/nov/09/copper-mining-reveals-clean-energy-dark-side https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/nov/09/copper-minin... [3] https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20150402-the-worst-place-on-earth https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20150402-the-worst-place-...
gtroja 3y ago
[flagged]
- atlasunshrugged 3y ago
  Given that the U.S. hasn't invaded DRC where the majority of the world's cobalt is mined and whose mines are mostly controlled by the PRC, an invasion of Zambia seems highly unlikely.
  - epups 3y ago
    The US has done a great deal of meddling in Congo, including plotting to kill their president and installing a dictator: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_the_Democratic_Republic_of_the_Congo https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_the_Democr...
- umvi 3y ago
  I know this will probably sound extremely arrogant but... at least we actually do try to bring democracy when we invade other countries, unlike, say, Russia + Ukraine or China + Hong Kong/Taiwan. IMO, Afghanistan had a pretty great gift handed to them by the USA, but they didn't value it at all and threw it all away for a crappy theocracy as soon as we pulled out. Stark contrast to South Korea. To be clear, I now think it's a terrible idea to force democracy on a country that doesn't want it, but hindsight is 20/20.
  - bcrosby95 3y ago
    More like ignorant. The US spent decades supporting whichever side would work with us, including overthrowing democratically elected rulers that wouldn't. Maybe we've learned, or maybe in another 30+ years we'll hear about all the shit we're pulling now.
    - neom 3y ago
      Tangentially related, but this is a good read: https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/04/obamas-worst-mistake-libya/478461/ https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/04/ob...
sirmike_ 3y ago
[flagged]
nen-nomad 3y ago
[flagged]
ljnelson 3y ago
Does this make Gates and Bezos the Lords of KoBold (hear our prayer)?
migf 3y ago
I'm curious about the environmental impacts of this deposit vs the copper sulfite mine we've been debating in Minnesota near Lake Superior / Boundary Waters.
TSiege 3y ago
Volts Podcast had an interview with the CEO of KoBold. It was definitely interesting and a needed improvement in finding resources considering the stakes. Hoping this isn't a Jevons Paradox and we don't ruin equally valuable ecosystems in our path. This is a real ethical concern given that the amount of resource extraction has grown so much year over year. https://www.volts.wtf/p/getting-better-at-mining-the-minerals https://www.volts.wtf/p/getting-better-at-mining-the-mineral... https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/jan/31/raw-materials-extraction-2060-un-report https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/jan/31/raw-mate...
ornel 3y ago
We had unprecedented social upheaval last year in Panama to free ourselves from a big Canadian copper mine and to push for nature and forests as our primary source of wealth. Zambia has of course not benefited from mining[0] (surely with the exception of big politicians), serving as just another third world source of raw materials with the usual consequences for the locals and the environment. About time more people in the global South reject this arragement. [0] https://dailynationzambia.com/2023/04/mingomba-mine-a-western-tragedy/ https://dailynationzambia.com/2023/04/mingomba-mine-a-wester...
standardly 3y ago
Does anyone know the etymology of the name KoBold? Because kobolds are the little mining tunnel rats in World of Warcraft. Surely this company wasn't named after a warcraft species.
- sgift 3y ago
  I don't know about the etymology for the company, but Kobold is a German word for a kind of sprite from folklore: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobold https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobold If I remember my folklore correctly some variants of them are associated with resource deposits. Maybe that's the connection?
  - standardly 3y ago
    Sounds like kobolds were in Dwarf Fortress. The WoW writers lifted from every fantasy/mythology ever, so I'm not sure if wow kobolds are a nod to DF or just a fantasy folklore reference. Probably the former.
    - ianburrell 3y ago
      Kobolds are from D&D. Both Dwarf Fortress and World of Warcraft got them from there. D&D got them from Tolkien, like most of the fantasy races, but I think the small lizard people concept is from D&D.
- nineteen999 3y ago
  You are correct. They are in fact named after the Kobolds in Dwarf Fortress. https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Kobold https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Kobold
  - standardly 3y ago
    Ah, from Dwarf Fortress! I think DF was a bit before my time. Thanks for the trivia :)
tommykins 3y ago
I like KoBold a lot, but this is a wild take on what has happened so far - a traditional mining exploration technique found this deposit, KoBold then brought into this as a typical cashed up midtier/large miner would and haven't released a resource and reserve calculation at all.

32 points by jocho12 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

schiffern 3y ago

[flagged]

atlasunshrugged 3y ago
I'm not sure I understand your comment, this article is specifically about KoBold, a startup which has just received venture funding (semi-recently) from Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos. It isn't implying that they owned the mine or were able to build their businesses from the gains from the mining. I assume both of them funded the company because sourcing minerals necessary to transition to renewables is a priority, whether for personal or business reasons. https://news.crunchbase.com/ai-robotics/cleantech-kobold-bill-gates-jeff-bezos-unicorn/ https://news.crunchbase.com/ai-robotics/cleantech-kobold-bil...
- schiffern 3y ago
  >It isn't implying that they owned the mine That's what "venture funding" is, by definition. >It isn't implying that they owned the mine or were able to build their businesses from the gains from the mining It isn't clear why this distinction should matter, ethically speaking.
  - atlasunshrugged 3y ago
    They own equity in a company that owns part of the mine, they don't own it outright. On your second point, I thought the whole complaint from people about Elon was that he wasn't actually "self-made" because he benefitted from the gains of the mine and had a privileged upbringing. If you just think owning mines in general is unethical, I'm really not sure what to say.
    - schiffern 3y ago
      > They own equity in a company that owns part of the mine, they don't own it outright. Of course, but it's a distinction without a difference. >the whole complaint from people about Elon was that he wasn't actually "self-made" because he benefitted from the gains of the mine and had a privileged upbringing. Yep. Not only is this claim factually false, but (as you point out) it doesn't make any sense because there isn't any inherent ethical problem with mining.

ganzuul 3y ago

Neat. Copper is expensive. Good find.

latchkey 3y ago
Another way to look at it. Hopefully the find brings the price of copper down so it is less attractive to thieves who steal it and interrupt infrastructure projects. https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-01-27/la-me-copper-wire-theft-task-force https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-01-27/la-me-co...
- Terr_ 3y ago
  I'd argue that's less of raw-materials issue and more of a "fencing stolen goods on a black market" one. Thieves are less sensitive to the prices somebody else is paying.
schiffern 3y ago
>Copper is expensive. The double-edged sword is, this also makes it famously dirty. This is structural, not incidental. An iron deposit is only viable at 20% iron (4 tons of slag for every ton of product), but copper is viable at 1% (99 tons of slag for every ton of product).
- arcticbull 3y ago
  Apparently it as high as 150t of ore per 1t of copper, and yeah it's an environmental disaster. [1] I can't help but feel this discoveries are such a mixed blessing for developing countries, when even Western countries do such a bad job of controlling for bad environmental outcomes. [2] As with rare earths, it feels like a good way to get clean outcomes at home and export and concentrate the environmental implications abroad. [3] [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5579155/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5579155/ [2] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/nov/09/copper-mining-reveals-clean-energy-dark-side https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/nov/09/copper-minin... [3] https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20150402-the-worst-place-on-earth https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20150402-the-worst-place-...

gtroja 3y ago

[flagged]

atlasunshrugged 3y ago
Given that the U.S. hasn't invaded DRC where the majority of the world's cobalt is mined and whose mines are mostly controlled by the PRC, an invasion of Zambia seems highly unlikely.
- epups 3y ago
  The US has done a great deal of meddling in Congo, including plotting to kill their president and installing a dictator: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_the_Democratic_Republic_of_the_Congo https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_the_Democr...
umvi 3y ago
I know this will probably sound extremely arrogant but... at least we actually do try to bring democracy when we invade other countries, unlike, say, Russia + Ukraine or China + Hong Kong/Taiwan. IMO, Afghanistan had a pretty great gift handed to them by the USA, but they didn't value it at all and threw it all away for a crappy theocracy as soon as we pulled out. Stark contrast to South Korea. To be clear, I now think it's a terrible idea to force democracy on a country that doesn't want it, but hindsight is 20/20.
- bcrosby95 3y ago
  More like ignorant. The US spent decades supporting whichever side would work with us, including overthrowing democratically elected rulers that wouldn't. Maybe we've learned, or maybe in another 30+ years we'll hear about all the shit we're pulling now.
  - neom 3y ago
    Tangentially related, but this is a good read: https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/04/obamas-worst-mistake-libya/478461/ https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/04/ob...

sirmike_ 3y ago

[flagged]

nen-nomad 3y ago

[flagged]

ljnelson 3y ago

Does this make Gates and Bezos the Lords of KoBold (hear our prayer)?

migf 3y ago

I'm curious about the environmental impacts of this deposit vs the copper sulfite mine we've been debating in Minnesota near Lake Superior / Boundary Waters.

TSiege 3y ago

Volts Podcast had an interview with the CEO of KoBold. It was definitely interesting and a needed improvement in finding resources considering the stakes. Hoping this isn't a Jevons Paradox and we don't ruin equally valuable ecosystems in our path. This is a real ethical concern given that the amount of resource extraction has grown so much year over year. https://www.volts.wtf/p/getting-better-at-mining-the-minerals https://www.volts.wtf/p/getting-better-at-mining-the-mineral... https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/jan/31/raw-materials-extraction-2060-un-report https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/jan/31/raw-mate...

ornel 3y ago

We had unprecedented social upheaval last year in Panama to free ourselves from a big Canadian copper mine and to push for nature and forests as our primary source of wealth. Zambia has of course not benefited from mining[0] (surely with the exception of big politicians), serving as just another third world source of raw materials with the usual consequences for the locals and the environment. About time more people in the global South reject this arragement. [0] https://dailynationzambia.com/2023/04/mingomba-mine-a-western-tragedy/ https://dailynationzambia.com/2023/04/mingomba-mine-a-wester...

standardly 3y ago

Does anyone know the etymology of the name KoBold? Because kobolds are the little mining tunnel rats in World of Warcraft. Surely this company wasn't named after a warcraft species.

sgift 3y ago
I don't know about the etymology for the company, but Kobold is a German word for a kind of sprite from folklore: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobold https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobold If I remember my folklore correctly some variants of them are associated with resource deposits. Maybe that's the connection?
- standardly 3y ago
  Sounds like kobolds were in Dwarf Fortress. The WoW writers lifted from every fantasy/mythology ever, so I'm not sure if wow kobolds are a nod to DF or just a fantasy folklore reference. Probably the former.
  - ianburrell 3y ago
    Kobolds are from D&D. Both Dwarf Fortress and World of Warcraft got them from there. D&D got them from Tolkien, like most of the fantasy races, but I think the small lizard people concept is from D&D.
nineteen999 3y ago
You are correct. They are in fact named after the Kobolds in Dwarf Fortress. https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Kobold https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Kobold
- standardly 3y ago
  Ah, from Dwarf Fortress! I think DF was a bit before my time. Thanks for the trivia :)

tommykins 3y ago

I like KoBold a lot, but this is a wild take on what has happened so far - a traditional mining exploration technique found this deposit, KoBold then brought into this as a typical cashed up midtier/large miner would and haven't released a resource and reserve calculation at all.