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For real question Is there anybody programming in todays Market? I get impression that a lot of open source, is because programmers 'want' to program, it is a

For real question Is there anybody programming in todays Market? I get impression that a lot of open source, is because programmers 'want' to program, it is a hobby, for fun. Because at work there is no programming happening. If you take entire market. It seems 90% jobs are not programming anymore. Most jobs today are tickets, or maintenance, or installing some other package, various terms for 'support'. Nobody is writing their own code. Where are the programming jobs?

bluGill 3y ago
Program has always been about 20% of the labor of a program. Testing was 50%, maintenance, documentation, and other things are the other 30%. The above numbers are all estimates and you can adjust them to some extent - trading quality for test time for example: I know some industries that when to 60% test, and some do less than 50% in test. The numbers have not really changed in modern software. We do more automated testing now, so programmers might spend a little more time on software, but the additional time is just in test.
- FrustratedMonky 3y ago
  What you are relating is a break down of tasks a programmer might do, the % hours of a day for these activities, tasks a programmer does as a part of programming. They might spend 20% of their time programming, like you say. Actually creating code. I'm asking, where are these jobs. It seems like 90% of the 'programming' jobs are doing '0%' coding. The job isn't about creating any new logic at all. It seems increasingly difficult to find a job that 'codes at all'.
tmtvl 3y ago
Tickets, oh what do you do with those? Close them with a 'RTFM, noob'? Or do you, perchance, read them, try to replicate the problem, code up a test case, and do some good old fashioned programming to fix the problem?
- FrustratedMonky 3y ago
  For real? I'm asking about the entire industry. Maybe voice an opinion after you get your second job. Edit: I'd say overwhelming, 'tickets' are taken and resolved by people with no access to code, and no authority to make any fixes. The situation you are representing is a very small percentage of problems.
  - Terr_ 3y ago
    I think there may be a confusion here between engineering task tickets versus customer-support tickets which might just be "the thingy isn't working somehow".
  - mikestew 3y ago
    Maybe voice an opinion after you get your second job. You might do well to watch your tone. I'm not the one you're replying to, but it seems you've constructed a straw man and are now beating the living stuffing out of him. Are you arguing that there are no jobs where machine-executable code gets written anymore? Assuming that is the case, I believe the burden is upon you to demonstrate a lack of new code being written. Because I've got a commit waiting for it's commit message, and it sure looks a lot like a new data abstraction layer to me, and I'm pretty sure I'm the one that wrote it.
    - FrustratedMonky 3y ago
      "watch your tone" What? Are you guy like 12 or something? Is this word salad supposed to be a point?
    - dirtyhippiefree 3y ago
      Did you see the tone the poster was responding to? Let me refresh your memory: “Tickets, oh what do you do with those? Close them with a 'RTFM, noob'?” True story.
TrackerFF 3y ago
In the end we're just plumbers piping together APIs and ensuring the right data-flow.
hinkley 3y ago
I've met an awful lot of programmers who either don't know how to have fun, or keep it a closely guarded secret. Some writers claim that they have to write some of their ideas down so they can get them out of their heads and get some peace. It's an exorcism. I have a very strong suspicion and circumstantial evidence that a lot of open source is much the same. Exorcism, or catharsis. Sometimes we write code to settle arguments as well. And sometimes we write open source code because we don't want to have to write this code the nth time when we go to a new job. It gets really boring, and if you can convince your boss it's for the Greater Good to put it out there, then you get to reuse it.
- FrustratedMonky 3y ago
  Yes. This was more to my point. There are a lot of people that like to program, but don't have a job that allows for them to program. Even if the job title would indicate it is a 'programming' job. Or other example. At work I'm stuck in meetings, and scrums, and bureaucracy And at home, I can code for the joy of coding. And a lot of this effort might go to open source. Just seems like there are a ton of 'software' jobs that just move paper around, and not that many that get to code. Tickets was just example. Edit: So, more high level. How many people took software jobs because they like to code, but end up not coding because a ton of software jobs are on the bureaucracy side. They get frustrated, so go home and code open source. Maybe asking here in a thread about coding in 1969. Because even coding from 1999 is no longer possible, and seems more like 'an elegant weapon for a more civilized age.'.
jacobsenscott 3y ago
I program almost every weekday for money, less vacation, and some days that are just code review and thinking, and I have been for over 20 years.

bluGill 3y ago

Program has always been about 20% of the labor of a program. Testing was 50%, maintenance, documentation, and other things are the other 30%. The above numbers are all estimates and you can adjust them to some extent - trading quality for test time for example: I know some industries that when to 60% test, and some do less than 50% in test. The numbers have not really changed in modern software. We do more automated testing now, so programmers might spend a little more time on software, but the additional time is just in test.

FrustratedMonky 3y ago
What you are relating is a break down of tasks a programmer might do, the % hours of a day for these activities, tasks a programmer does as a part of programming. They might spend 20% of their time programming, like you say. Actually creating code. I'm asking, where are these jobs. It seems like 90% of the 'programming' jobs are doing '0%' coding. The job isn't about creating any new logic at all. It seems increasingly difficult to find a job that 'codes at all'.

tmtvl 3y ago

Tickets, oh what do you do with those? Close them with a 'RTFM, noob'? Or do you, perchance, read them, try to replicate the problem, code up a test case, and do some good old fashioned programming to fix the problem?

FrustratedMonky 3y ago
For real? I'm asking about the entire industry. Maybe voice an opinion after you get your second job. Edit: I'd say overwhelming, 'tickets' are taken and resolved by people with no access to code, and no authority to make any fixes. The situation you are representing is a very small percentage of problems.
- Terr_ 3y ago
  I think there may be a confusion here between engineering task tickets versus customer-support tickets which might just be "the thingy isn't working somehow".
- mikestew 3y ago
  Maybe voice an opinion after you get your second job. You might do well to watch your tone. I'm not the one you're replying to, but it seems you've constructed a straw man and are now beating the living stuffing out of him. Are you arguing that there are no jobs where machine-executable code gets written anymore? Assuming that is the case, I believe the burden is upon you to demonstrate a lack of new code being written. Because I've got a commit waiting for it's commit message, and it sure looks a lot like a new data abstraction layer to me, and I'm pretty sure I'm the one that wrote it.
  - FrustratedMonky 3y ago
    "watch your tone" What? Are you guy like 12 or something? Is this word salad supposed to be a point?
  - dirtyhippiefree 3y ago
    Did you see the tone the poster was responding to? Let me refresh your memory: “Tickets, oh what do you do with those? Close them with a 'RTFM, noob'?” True story.

TrackerFF 3y ago

In the end we're just plumbers piping together APIs and ensuring the right data-flow.

hinkley 3y ago

I've met an awful lot of programmers who either don't know how to have fun, or keep it a closely guarded secret. Some writers claim that they have to write some of their ideas down so they can get them out of their heads and get some peace. It's an exorcism. I have a very strong suspicion and circumstantial evidence that a lot of open source is much the same. Exorcism, or catharsis. Sometimes we write code to settle arguments as well. And sometimes we write open source code because we don't want to have to write this code the nth time when we go to a new job. It gets really boring, and if you can convince your boss it's for the Greater Good to put it out there, then you get to reuse it.

FrustratedMonky 3y ago
Yes. This was more to my point. There are a lot of people that like to program, but don't have a job that allows for them to program. Even if the job title would indicate it is a 'programming' job. Or other example. At work I'm stuck in meetings, and scrums, and bureaucracy And at home, I can code for the joy of coding. And a lot of this effort might go to open source. Just seems like there are a ton of 'software' jobs that just move paper around, and not that many that get to code. Tickets was just example. Edit: So, more high level. How many people took software jobs because they like to code, but end up not coding because a ton of software jobs are on the bureaucracy side. They get frustrated, so go home and code open source. Maybe asking here in a thread about coding in 1969. Because even coding from 1999 is no longer possible, and seems more like 'an elegant weapon for a more civilized age.'.

jacobsenscott 3y ago

I program almost every weekday for money, less vacation, and some days that are just code review and thinking, and I have been for over 20 years.