4 ms·

> If it is illegal to say "We have all of the proof we need to convict you, you are going away for life, but if you confess we'll shorten your sentence" when th

> If it is illegal to say "We have all of the proof we need to convict you, you are going away for life, but if you confess we'll shorten your sentence" when they have no proof at all it's going to put a heavy burden on the prosecutor to get that person in jail. That's not a realistic scenario. All actual evidence is disclosed as a matter of course in the justice process. Any bottom barrel attorney assures this, to whom the defendant has a right.

legitster 3y ago
Sure, but the actual evidence is much easier to collect after you have a confession.
- mrangle 3y ago
  What?
- jandrese 3y ago
  Why would they need evidence if they have a confession? The cops aren't going to do extra work they don't need to.
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    A confession may make other evidence easier to get at. If you suspect wrongdoing, but don't have probable cause to search the car/house, and the suspect says "oh yeah I've got a dead body in there", you're potentially about to be in posession of some serious new evidence you didn't have a right to get at previously.
gs17 3y ago
>when he asked police whether he needed an attorney they said no because they were only asking a few questions More from https://wainnocenceproject.org/stories/ted-bradford/ https://wainnocenceproject.org/stories/ted-bradford/ > An attorney sent by Ted’s wife was prohibited from entering the interrogation room by law enforcement, who told the attorney he would not be permitted in unless Ted specifically requested an attorney. The cops are not interested in playing fair.
- mrangle 3y ago
  I'm not sure that "isn't fair". Its more like exploiting a technicality. But if it helps, I'd be for a provision that forced law enforcement to notify a subject when an attorney is offering to represent them at the time that it happens, and that they have the right to acccept that representation. Though, I wouldn't hold my breath given that he was already Miranda'd. The cops may be doing something illegal, at which point the interrogation would be inadmissable. But that would validate that the system works. Remember that we are discussing lying and afforded protections against it. His attorney is an afforded protection, and he should have requested one.
jandrese 3y ago
False confessions are often secured without an attorney present. Many people are not good at demanding their attorney, and the cops aren't going to suggest it or offer it as an option to someone they're trying to sweat out.
- gs17 3y ago
  >Many people are not good at demanding their attorney It doesn't help that "not good" can include using a slightly slangy sentence ("laywer, dog") or sounding like you're asking permission or stating an opinion.
digdugdirk 3y ago
That statement is factually untrue. Law enforcement regularly withholds evidence without any repercussion. More importantly, the previous comment is referring to plea bargaining. Essentially, law enforcement is using the poor state of the current justice system to pressure people without resources into accepting a guilty verdict because the system is so stacked against them. Imagine: "Yeah, you can try to prove your innocence, but we're going to hold you until your arraingment. That'll be at least a few weeks, which will mean you'll lose your job and your apartment and your car will be repo'd. And you'll probably lose anyway, because we've got all this evidence against you, and we promise its bulletproof. Or... You can take this deal we're offering. You plead guilty, and we'll let you walk out of here today."
garyfirestorm 3y ago
These things happen before courts are involved. They are known as plea bargains. Unless you have a ton of money and a lawyer on call and are really smart, you would be made to believe it’s this short sentence or a very long sentence. Many people without resources and support often falsely confess.

legitster 3y ago

Sure, but the actual evidence is much easier to collect after you have a confession.

mrangle 3y ago
What?
jandrese 3y ago
Why would they need evidence if they have a confession? The cops aren't going to do extra work they don't need to.
- ceejayoz 3y ago
  A confession may make other evidence easier to get at. If you suspect wrongdoing, but don't have probable cause to search the car/house, and the suspect says "oh yeah I've got a dead body in there", you're potentially about to be in posession of some serious new evidence you didn't have a right to get at previously.

gs17 3y ago

>when he asked police whether he needed an attorney they said no because they were only asking a few questions More from https://wainnocenceproject.org/stories/ted-bradford/ https://wainnocenceproject.org/stories/ted-bradford/ > An attorney sent by Ted’s wife was prohibited from entering the interrogation room by law enforcement, who told the attorney he would not be permitted in unless Ted specifically requested an attorney. The cops are not interested in playing fair.

mrangle 3y ago
I'm not sure that "isn't fair". Its more like exploiting a technicality. But if it helps, I'd be for a provision that forced law enforcement to notify a subject when an attorney is offering to represent them at the time that it happens, and that they have the right to acccept that representation. Though, I wouldn't hold my breath given that he was already Miranda'd. The cops may be doing something illegal, at which point the interrogation would be inadmissable. But that would validate that the system works. Remember that we are discussing lying and afforded protections against it. His attorney is an afforded protection, and he should have requested one.

jandrese 3y ago

False confessions are often secured without an attorney present. Many people are not good at demanding their attorney, and the cops aren't going to suggest it or offer it as an option to someone they're trying to sweat out.

gs17 3y ago
>Many people are not good at demanding their attorney It doesn't help that "not good" can include using a slightly slangy sentence ("laywer, dog") or sounding like you're asking permission or stating an opinion.

digdugdirk 3y ago

That statement is factually untrue. Law enforcement regularly withholds evidence without any repercussion. More importantly, the previous comment is referring to plea bargaining. Essentially, law enforcement is using the poor state of the current justice system to pressure people without resources into accepting a guilty verdict because the system is so stacked against them. Imagine: "Yeah, you can try to prove your innocence, but we're going to hold you until your arraingment. That'll be at least a few weeks, which will mean you'll lose your job and your apartment and your car will be repo'd. And you'll probably lose anyway, because we've got all this evidence against you, and we promise its bulletproof. Or... You can take this deal we're offering. You plead guilty, and we'll let you walk out of here today."

garyfirestorm 3y ago

These things happen before courts are involved. They are known as plea bargains. Unless you have a ton of money and a lawyer on call and are really smart, you would be made to believe it’s this short sentence or a very long sentence. Many people without resources and support often falsely confess.