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Actual defense contracting (Boeing/Lockheed, not Palantir) are hugely societally positive in defending the homeland. Unfortunately, Google engineers likely thin

Actual defense contracting (Boeing/Lockheed, not Palantir) are hugely societally positive in defending the homeland. Unfortunately, Google engineers likely think of these companies as employing lesser people, mostly because they genuinely do pay very poorly.

giraffe_lady 3y ago
Which homeland? My view of society extends beyond american borders, and it is not improved by the US drone bombing teenagers a world away.
- CoastalCoder 3y ago
  I agree there's not a consensus on this kind of thing. My main takeaway is that voting (and organizing votes) really matters a lot.
  - giraffe_lady 3y ago
    "Should we violate the borders of other countries to bomb their citizens when it serves our interest" doesn't actually seem to be an issue americans get a meaningful vote-based choice about though. Bother parties seem to love that shit!
- laidoffamazon 3y ago
  The United States is the sole superpower and the only bulwark against illiberalism and authoritarianism so that one
  - giraffe_lady 3y ago
    Have you considered the possibility that your fifth grade social studies teacher was not explaining the entire situation to you?
    - laidoffamazon 3y ago
      Yes, I was far more anti-America when I was in fifth grade. Thankfully I grew out of that after traveling and realizing it doesn’t get better than this.
      - giraffe_lady 3y ago
        Yeah man, the countries getting couped and bombed are going to be worse places to be than the ones doing the couping and bombing. It doesn't get better than this because we don't allow it to. The US using global violence to serve its own interests is effective! You may selfishly and amorally support this because of its benefits to you. It's not consistent to claim that this opposes "illiberalism and authoritarianism" when during the last century the US has overthrown more liberal democracies in favor of despots than everyone else combined.
        laidoffamazon 3y ago
        Yeah, ok, I went through my Zinn/Chomsky phase too, it's fine, we all get through it. For me it took seeing a President that hated America (#45) to really understand why this line of thinking was so flawed.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
CoastalCoder 3y ago
I've worked for the DoD, so I've had to think through my take on the ethics of it all. IMHO the issue is that a country's military can be used for good and/or for evil, and people generally are unable to participate when and only when they agree with a mission. But I also agree about the pay. Even for labs on the DEMO pay scale, the median pay isn't very competitive with the private sector for well-qualified software developers. And there's no possibility of competing with the potential high-end of private sector pay.
scarface_74 3y ago
Not really, the way that Congress allocates defense spending is based on funneling money to their donors and their districts and often not what is best for the military or even what the military is asking for. For at least the last 30 years there have been times where military leaders wanted to close bases but Congress wouldn’t allow them because of the civilians in their districts who would lose jobs. Not to mention that military leaders have been preaching for years that the current and growing US debt is an existential risk.
- wg0 3y ago
  Have they? Just curious. Fed Chair has raised this concern as lately as few weeks ago probably [0] [0]. https://youtu.be/ImrKxlLJCEY https://youtu.be/ImrKxlLJCEY
BoxFour 3y ago
> Actual defense contracting (Boeing/Lockheed, not Palantir) are hugely societally positive in defending the homeland I hope you recognize that many people view it as similar to advertising, a necessary evil of an industry gone too far.

giraffe_lady 3y ago

Which homeland? My view of society extends beyond american borders, and it is not improved by the US drone bombing teenagers a world away.

CoastalCoder 3y ago
I agree there's not a consensus on this kind of thing. My main takeaway is that voting (and organizing votes) really matters a lot.
- giraffe_lady 3y ago
  "Should we violate the borders of other countries to bomb their citizens when it serves our interest" doesn't actually seem to be an issue americans get a meaningful vote-based choice about though. Bother parties seem to love that shit!
laidoffamazon 3y ago
The United States is the sole superpower and the only bulwark against illiberalism and authoritarianism so that one
- giraffe_lady 3y ago
  Have you considered the possibility that your fifth grade social studies teacher was not explaining the entire situation to you?
  - laidoffamazon 3y ago
    Yes, I was far more anti-America when I was in fifth grade. Thankfully I grew out of that after traveling and realizing it doesn’t get better than this.
    - giraffe_lady 3y ago
      Yeah man, the countries getting couped and bombed are going to be worse places to be than the ones doing the couping and bombing. It doesn't get better than this because we don't allow it to. The US using global violence to serve its own interests is effective! You may selfishly and amorally support this because of its benefits to you. It's not consistent to claim that this opposes "illiberalism and authoritarianism" when during the last century the US has overthrown more liberal democracies in favor of despots than everyone else combined.
      - laidoffamazon 3y ago
        Yeah, ok, I went through my Zinn/Chomsky phase too, it's fine, we all get through it. For me it took seeing a President that hated America (#45) to really understand why this line of thinking was so flawed.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]

CoastalCoder 3y ago

I've worked for the DoD, so I've had to think through my take on the ethics of it all. IMHO the issue is that a country's military can be used for good and/or for evil, and people generally are unable to participate when and only when they agree with a mission. But I also agree about the pay. Even for labs on the DEMO pay scale, the median pay isn't very competitive with the private sector for well-qualified software developers. And there's no possibility of competing with the potential high-end of private sector pay.

scarface_74 3y ago

Not really, the way that Congress allocates defense spending is based on funneling money to their donors and their districts and often not what is best for the military or even what the military is asking for. For at least the last 30 years there have been times where military leaders wanted to close bases but Congress wouldn’t allow them because of the civilians in their districts who would lose jobs. Not to mention that military leaders have been preaching for years that the current and growing US debt is an existential risk.

wg0 3y ago
Have they? Just curious. Fed Chair has raised this concern as lately as few weeks ago probably [0] [0]. https://youtu.be/ImrKxlLJCEY https://youtu.be/ImrKxlLJCEY

BoxFour 3y ago

> Actual defense contracting (Boeing/Lockheed, not Palantir) are hugely societally positive in defending the homeland I hope you recognize that many people view it as similar to advertising, a necessary evil of an industry gone too far.