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View from a US-expat in the Netherlands: It doesn't have to be as bad as it is. Subsidize daycare, fund schools (from pre-school to university) and focus on l

by furyg3 3y ago

View from a US-expat in the Netherlands: It doesn't have to be as bad as it is. Subsidize daycare, fund schools (from pre-school to university) and focus on learning at-school and not at-home, and pass laws forcing employers to allow parents to reduce their working hours, should they wish to. You can rebuild your cities to be bike able, change gender norms, or change work culture, but honestly the most change will come from the first list. My situation as a parent here: On the cost side, recurring costs for after-school daycare (2x week), school 'contributions' (field trips), violin lessons and rental, gymnastics classes, and normal clothing purchases are €200/month. Daycare is subsidized and we are lucky that we only need two days, but bumping that up to 3 or 4 would not be insane on the cost side. Baby day care was also subsidized, but can get expensive if you are sending them 5x week... it depends on the parent's income. For us subsidies covered about a third of the costs, but we earned well. The school here takes care of education, with very little homework. It's well-funded, and does not require much extra effort or money from our side. We can be as involved as we want to be. We are able to use only 2x of day care per week because a) most employers understand the needs of parents but mostly b) by law employers are required to let you reduce your hours to, for example, take care of your kids. We both work a half-day once a week, with another family member helping on the remaining day. While the Dutch will complain about higher education costs, the costs are reasonable. A 4 year study will cost you around €10k in tuition, total. That 4 year study results in a masters if the student is able / wants to follow a university track.

the_third_wave 3y ago
> While the Dutch will complain about higher education costs Being a Dutchman myself I'll just put this down to the following piece of Dutch wisdom: Ik klaag, dus ik besta [1], a derivation of Descartes' first principle. [1] ...which translates to I complain, therefore I am
ghusto 3y ago
It's not a co-incidence that so many people come here to raise their children, but close-by countries like France, Germany, and Spain aren't much different. And yeah, complaining is the national pass-time, until you visit certain other countries ;)
lamontcg 3y ago
Universal health care, daycare and public college, along with jettisoning all this RTO bullshit into the sun would do a lot to increase incentives for people to have families in this country (US). Given our start-your-worklife-massively-in-debt, 80-hour-workweek, slave-at-the-office-till-you-die mentality, don't be surprised if more and more people don't have kids.
geraldhh 3y ago
> That 4 year study results in a masters if the student is able fwiw 4 year study ends with a bachelors degree
seec 3y ago
Yeah, expect the Dutch do not make any more children than other countries, now you have a give a lot bigger part of your income to the government whether you want kids or not and this money is going to be use for increasingly inefficient and uncompetitive institution that somehow always needs more money for inexistant results. Oh, and suddenly your whole population tends to think and act alike for many important subjects because of the built-in propaganda at school. The effects of this can clearly be seen in the current active generation. As a French that until recently had better fertility than most European countries because of heavy subsidy for having kids I find it funny that you think it even works long-term because it clearly doesn't, even France has dropped fertility and not only you get all the help in the world to have kids, mother are actually paid to have them, yet it doesn't work... The reality is that it's all about division of labor/responsibility between the sexes but because of previously mentioned "universal education" this is something that cannot be said, because not politically correct (in pretty much any political side which is hilarious in itself). It's very easy to idealize this coercive system when you were able to choose it but realistically if you would ask many past a certain age, they would definitely choose some other arrangements than to rely on the government for their kids, considering the ongoing cost via taxation (you get to pay forever, how cool) and low quality results...

by furyg3 3y ago

the_third_wave 3y ago

> While the Dutch will complain about higher education costs Being a Dutchman myself I'll just put this down to the following piece of Dutch wisdom: Ik klaag, dus ik besta [1], a derivation of Descartes' first principle. [1] ...which translates to I complain, therefore I am

ghusto 3y ago

It's not a co-incidence that so many people come here to raise their children, but close-by countries like France, Germany, and Spain aren't much different. And yeah, complaining is the national pass-time, until you visit certain other countries ;)

lamontcg 3y ago

Universal health care, daycare and public college, along with jettisoning all this RTO bullshit into the sun would do a lot to increase incentives for people to have families in this country (US). Given our start-your-worklife-massively-in-debt, 80-hour-workweek, slave-at-the-office-till-you-die mentality, don't be surprised if more and more people don't have kids.

geraldhh 3y ago

> That 4 year study results in a masters if the student is able fwiw 4 year study ends with a bachelors degree

seec 3y ago

Yeah, expect the Dutch do not make any more children than other countries, now you have a give a lot bigger part of your income to the government whether you want kids or not and this money is going to be use for increasingly inefficient and uncompetitive institution that somehow always needs more money for inexistant results. Oh, and suddenly your whole population tends to think and act alike for many important subjects because of the built-in propaganda at school. The effects of this can clearly be seen in the current active generation. As a French that until recently had better fertility than most European countries because of heavy subsidy for having kids I find it funny that you think it even works long-term because it clearly doesn't, even France has dropped fertility and not only you get all the help in the world to have kids, mother are actually paid to have them, yet it doesn't work... The reality is that it's all about division of labor/responsibility between the sexes but because of previously mentioned "universal education" this is something that cannot be said, because not politically correct (in pretty much any political side which is hilarious in itself). It's very easy to idealize this coercive system when you were able to choose it but realistically if you would ask many past a certain age, they would definitely choose some other arrangements than to rely on the government for their kids, considering the ongoing cost via taxation (you get to pay forever, how cool) and low quality results...