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Actually they voted for tripling the cost of heavy vehicles. The size is not even mentioned. It's a shortsighted move, since it incentives using gasoline cars i
by quonn 3y ago
Actually they voted for tripling the cost of heavy vehicles. The size is not even mentioned. It's a shortsighted move, since it incentives using gasoline cars in cities and disincentivies Hybrid and even EVs due to their weight.
There is nothing in the rules specific to SUVs.
- ChatGTP 3y agoTyre dust, break dust, there are other forms of pollution we need to eradicate / reduce.
- luplex 3y agoThis is true. But I fear that this talking point will be used by lobbyists and pro-ICE fanatics to justify more climate damage than necessary.
- ChatGTP 3y agoThe world is off ICEs now, no amount of lobbying is going to convince people they’re a good idea going forwards.
- quonn 3y ago> The world is off ICEs now How is it off ICE? It's slowly moving in the right direction, but very slowly indeed. New ICE will be produced and sold even in Europe for another 10 years and afterwards they have a long lifetime.
- ChatGTP 3y agoYounger people are growing up facing an existential threat from climate change, they're the next generation of car buyers, and they're not passionate about or interested in maintaining the status quo. My fathers generation was, most people were very concerned at the idea of there being no more ICE vehicles on the road, as if something important was being taken away from them from a cultural standpoint.
- HPsquared 3y agoEVs produce almost no brake dust. Someone needs to develop tyres that are made of healthier materials.
- ChatGTP 3y agoThey produce break dust.
- quonn 3y agoMaybe you should have asked ChatGPT. It would have told you that due to regenerative breaking no break dust is produced. The recuperation is pretty strong and there is absolutely no need to ever break inside a city, except in rare emergency situations.
- quonn 3y ago> Someone needs to develop tyres that are made of healthier materials. Good point. We certainly have the technology. Currently tyres are half natural rubber and half plastic. They could be made 100% rubber, perhaps with some drawbacks. Maybe an engineer can comment on that, I would be very interested to know why exactly the non natural rubber is needed. I know that Continental has a research project to make the natural rubber out of dandelion. But even those tyres still have 50% plastic rubber.
- pjc50 3y agoI suspect that's partly due to the scale of land use that would be required for rubber plantations.
- quonn 3y agoSo it's a price issue? Well then the prices of tyres will go up, I don't see a fundamental problem here. This will also create a natural incentive to drive in a way that minimises wear on the tyres. If it's a dandelion plantation it can be done in central Europe, for example.
- quonn 3y ago> Break dust Should not occur in EVs because braking is not necessary. > Tyre dust Fine. In cities this is one of the easiest problems to solve, since most of it is washed out into drainage pipes and the waste water can be effectively filtered (although this is not done in most places yet). Fortunately I don't live in a city anymore so I don't have to put up with these rules.
- graemep 3y agoNo, people can use a small EV. I am not even sure using a large EV is better than a small ICE once you take into account other forms of pollution, road damage, congestion (which increases pollution as well as other effects) and safety issues.
- quonn 3y agoSure they can. But currently using an ICE is cheaper than using an EV and they have made it more like this. > I am not even sure using a large EV is better than a small ICE once you take into account other forms of pollution, road damage, congestion Where did I mention large EV? I'm mentioning a normal EV and comparing that to an equally sized ICE. Why would anyone compare a large EV with a small ICE? It's a strange and dishonest comparison. Large cars are not significantly longer (they are higher and fatter) and congestions does not occur due to this car size. Cars need to keep a large distance between each other for safety. Even a small ICE car will very quickly emit more than the production of an average EV car ever could. In a city there is the added benefit that EVs are silent and do not emit locally which matters.
- graemep 3y ago> Sure they can. But currently using an ICE is cheaper than using an EV and they have made it more like this. Running would depend on prices of petrol and electricity. Have you checked what they are in Paris? Overall costs depends on that and purchase cost and usage. An ICE car is cheaper for me because I do very low mileage (a few thousand mile a year, almost none in heavy traffic), I imagine it would be very different for commuters. > Why would anyone compare a large EV with a small ICE? It's a strange and dishonest comparison. Because the whole point of the charges is to encourage people to use a lighter car. The weight difference between small and large cars is far bigger than that between EV and ICE of the same size. You have also not considered other forms of pollution in use (you mentioned production, which is another issue) or road damage and safety (which is directly related to weight). > Large cars are not significantly longer (they are higher and fatter) Really not longer? Current Range Rovers are about 5 meters long, that is about 20% longer than typical hatchback. Wider also causes congestion as people need to slow to pass each other more often.
- surgical_fire 3y agoParis has excellent public transportation infrastructure. They might as well incentive people to use that instead of cars.
- HenriTEL 3y agoActually only EVs above 2 Metric Tons are concerned, which is fair IMO.
- quonn 3y agoIt's fair only to young people without kids. The Model 3 barely manages to be below that limit and it might work with kids (although no doubt the Y is better for that). But it is difficult to use for old people because it is so low that getting in and out is not easy and making it less low will make it less efficient and require adding a larger battery - making it heavier.
- HenriTEL 3y agoNo, even the long range still has a 150kg margin. The problem is that people use their large car to go on vacation with the children for their work commute, be it an SUV or a long rage EV, that's not sustainable. Especially in a town like Paris where you have good public transports (could be better, granted).
- quonn 3y agoSo it's more sustainable to have two cars instead of one? For an EV most of the emissions are created during production, so the less production the better. It's best to have one sufficiently flexible car, even if it's bigger, since that minimises production emissions. Also the large car is not just used to take the kids on vacations, but typically all the time.
- HenriTEL 3y ago> So it's more sustainable to have two cars instead of one? Depends on the cars but if the second one is a small EV yes, you're better using that for your daily commute. The larger one should last longer, mitigating the production cost over the long term. Still in towns like Paris you should favor bicycle or public transportation. You can also have a smaller EV and rent a larger one for the long trips.