4 ms·

I get the feeling I should really take the plunge and start using one of the BSDs, at least as a web server or something. I rarely see them mentioned in job pos

I get the feeling I should really take the plunge and start using one of the BSDs, at least as a web server or something. I rarely see them mentioned in job postings compared to Linux, but everything I hear about them as servers sounds so much less painful. Turn as to whether Free vs Open vs Net makes the most sense. My very uncertain guess is Free is the easiest to get used to, and that you can't really go too wrong with any of them without a specialized use case.

mlyle 3y ago
> everything I hear about them as servers sounds so much less painful. It's a different kind of pain. The entire "distribution" is cohesive and clean in a way that no Linux distribution manages. A lot of duplication of effort and ugliness is avoided. But everyone develops for Linux, and you run into places where things don't work. And performance doesn't come close to Linux on the top end or even high middle end.
- jjav 3y ago
  > And performance doesn't come close to Linux on the top end or even high middle end. There are presentation about how Netflix uses BSD for video delivery for its performance, so it can't be that bad.
  - xyproto 3y ago
    Unless Netflix compares the performance with Linux and publishes the results, it's hard to know if it's a great idea or just based on the whims of the most senior sysadmins.
    - belgesel 3y ago
      IIRC the main reason to use FreeBSD instead of Linux was BSD being a lot simpler and have a lot more room to optimize their specific use case.
  - King1st 3y ago
    BSD is really do for companies that want to keep their code closed, but not start from scratch. I see this as a large reason why Netflix uses them and Sony uses BSD on playstations.
- roydivision 3y ago
  > And performance doesn't come close to Linux on the top end or even high middle end. The Playstation System software (Orbis OS) is a fork of FreeBSD: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_4_system_software https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_4_system_software I'd guess performance was pretty high on Sony's list of priorities.
  - znpy 3y ago
    Your guess is mostly wrong. The playstation runs freebsd rather than linux licensing reasons, not for speed.
    - roydivision 3y ago
      Sure, Sony chooses a crap preforming OS just because it can't license the most popular. That makes sense.
      - skissane 3y ago
        It’s a gaming console. A lot of performance issues which could occur with e.g. a server OS aren’t going to happen. And the bits that are most performance critical (primarily graphics) are very custom and likely have little in common with vanilla FreeBSD So how well it performs for Sony says very little about how well it will perform for you - since your use cases have a high chance of being very different from theirs
        roydivision 3y ago
        Yeah, I can see that. Fair enough. Thanks.
      - znpy 3y ago
        > That makes sense. you'd be surprised how many nice things we don't get because of licensing. dumb example: magsafe. it'd be nice and cheap to have it on all laptops, but laptop manufacturers can't license it (because apple won't sell licenses) so they have to go with other routes.
- BSDobelix 3y ago
  >And performance doesn't come close to Linux on the top end or even high middle end. It's a mixed bag, a not so good benchmark: https://senioradmin.de/BenchmarkBSDLinux.html https://senioradmin.de/BenchmarkBSDLinux.html And a little better one (with FreeBSD13 but 14 is already out and it's much faster[1]): https://www.phoronix.com/review/bsd-linux-eo2021 https://www.phoronix.com/review/bsd-linux-eo2021 [1]https://www.phoronix.com/review/freebsd-14-epyc https://www.phoronix.com/review/freebsd-14-epyc
BSDobelix 3y ago
I went full in on FreeBSD, it just has the most features and biggest community. I have pf (the firewall), zfs or ufs(the real one :) ), HAST, two supported versions FB13/14, packages or ports (both available as head or quarterly), MAC, Jail's, Bhyve, Security Event Auditing, Secure-levels, Capsicum, File-flags etc etc. [1] And one really important point for me, one can work ~instantly on the project: -Read https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/porters-handbook/ https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/porters-handbook/ -Open an account at https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/ https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/ -Send in patches and have fun. -Search for outdated ports https://portscout.freebsd.org/ https://portscout.freebsd.org/ -Send in another patch. [1] https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/security/ https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/security/

mlyle 3y ago

> everything I hear about them as servers sounds so much less painful. It's a different kind of pain. The entire "distribution" is cohesive and clean in a way that no Linux distribution manages. A lot of duplication of effort and ugliness is avoided. But everyone develops for Linux, and you run into places where things don't work. And performance doesn't come close to Linux on the top end or even high middle end.

jjav 3y ago
> And performance doesn't come close to Linux on the top end or even high middle end. There are presentation about how Netflix uses BSD for video delivery for its performance, so it can't be that bad.
- xyproto 3y ago
  Unless Netflix compares the performance with Linux and publishes the results, it's hard to know if it's a great idea or just based on the whims of the most senior sysadmins.
  - belgesel 3y ago
    IIRC the main reason to use FreeBSD instead of Linux was BSD being a lot simpler and have a lot more room to optimize their specific use case.
- King1st 3y ago
  BSD is really do for companies that want to keep their code closed, but not start from scratch. I see this as a large reason why Netflix uses them and Sony uses BSD on playstations.
roydivision 3y ago
> And performance doesn't come close to Linux on the top end or even high middle end. The Playstation System software (Orbis OS) is a fork of FreeBSD: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_4_system_software https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_4_system_software I'd guess performance was pretty high on Sony's list of priorities.
- znpy 3y ago
  Your guess is mostly wrong. The playstation runs freebsd rather than linux licensing reasons, not for speed.
  - roydivision 3y ago
    Sure, Sony chooses a crap preforming OS just because it can't license the most popular. That makes sense.
    - skissane 3y ago
      It’s a gaming console. A lot of performance issues which could occur with e.g. a server OS aren’t going to happen. And the bits that are most performance critical (primarily graphics) are very custom and likely have little in common with vanilla FreeBSD So how well it performs for Sony says very little about how well it will perform for you - since your use cases have a high chance of being very different from theirs
      - roydivision 3y ago
        Yeah, I can see that. Fair enough. Thanks.
    - znpy 3y ago
      > That makes sense. you'd be surprised how many nice things we don't get because of licensing. dumb example: magsafe. it'd be nice and cheap to have it on all laptops, but laptop manufacturers can't license it (because apple won't sell licenses) so they have to go with other routes.
BSDobelix 3y ago
>And performance doesn't come close to Linux on the top end or even high middle end. It's a mixed bag, a not so good benchmark: https://senioradmin.de/BenchmarkBSDLinux.html https://senioradmin.de/BenchmarkBSDLinux.html And a little better one (with FreeBSD13 but 14 is already out and it's much faster[1]): https://www.phoronix.com/review/bsd-linux-eo2021 https://www.phoronix.com/review/bsd-linux-eo2021 [1]https://www.phoronix.com/review/freebsd-14-epyc https://www.phoronix.com/review/freebsd-14-epyc

BSDobelix 3y ago

I went full in on FreeBSD, it just has the most features and biggest community. I have pf (the firewall), zfs or ufs(the real one :) ), HAST, two supported versions FB13/14, packages or ports (both available as head or quarterly), MAC, Jail's, Bhyve, Security Event Auditing, Secure-levels, Capsicum, File-flags etc etc. [1] And one really important point for me, one can work ~instantly on the project: -Read https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/porters-handbook/ https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/porters-handbook/ -Open an account at https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/ https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/ -Send in patches and have fun. -Search for outdated ports https://portscout.freebsd.org/ https://portscout.freebsd.org/ -Send in another patch. [1] https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/security/ https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/security/