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> registered with the state The government is not a single entity. States do not funnel this information to the IRS. > Those are both matters of public recor

> registered with the state The government is not a single entity. States do not funnel this information to the IRS. > Those are both matters of public record In my state (Missouri) house sale prices are not public record. > 87% of all filings take the standard deduction in any given year for a reason Yes I think everyone would be enthusiastic about submitting taxes that are 87% accurate.

BugsJustFindMe 3y ago
>In my state (Missouri) house sale prices are not public record. That's a weird wrong thing you think. Visit https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/data/address-search/index.cfm https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/data/address-search/index.cfm and put in any address in St Louis MO and you'll see who owns it, when it sold, how much it sold for, how much property tax they owe, the bounds of their lot, and more. Here's an example, randomly selected from google maps: https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/data/address-search/index.cfm?parcelId=55400003600&lat=886322.89069&long=1000922.36148&addr=4345+DELOR+ST+ST+LOUIS+MO+63116&CategoryBy=form.start%2Cform.RealEstatePropertyInfor%2Cform.BoundaryGeography%2Cform.ResidentialServices%2Cform.TrashMaintenance%2Cform.ElectedOfficialsContacts&firstview=true#address-search https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/data/address-search/index.cfm?par... This is standard. > Yes I think everyone would be enthusiastic about submitting taxes that are 87% accurate. I'm going to ignore this obvious bad faith trolling.
- vel0city 3y ago
  That's tax assessed values, not necessarily the actual sale amounts. The assessed value of my house has never been the same as my actual purchase price.
  - BugsJustFindMe 3y ago
    > That's tax assessed values, not necessarily the actual sale amounts. Scroll like 12.5 more pixels. The next section immediately below tax assessed value says "Sales Data" and includes a column for "Sale Price".
    - vel0city 3y ago
      Having some data isn't the same as having all the data.
      - BugsJustFindMe 3y ago
        Tell me more about how having all of the data for most people and almost all of the data for the rest is like having no data at all for anyone. Because I'm struggling to see the connection to that last step. The fact remains through all of this that the IRS does actually have _all_ of the needed information for the vast majority of tax filings. It's an extremely bad faith reach to be like "but maybe I sell my house for bags of paper cash (no banks) every year without telling anyone but want the IRS to know about it" and pretend like that's not an absolutely obnoxiously absurd argument against doing something that would help nearly everyone in the country. Because, let us be absolutely clear, the vast vaaast majority of everyone in the country live in other states, do report sales even if they do live in those states this person is making the claim about, don't sell or buy houses all that often if at all, and especially don't do it without involving a reporting financial institution.
        vel0city 3y ago
        I'm not saying anything about the IRS system, I'm just saying the federal government definitely doesn't have all household sales data for all residential sales. It's not required filing in Missouri and several other states. The federal government likely has zero clue what I spent to buy my house. They could probably find it if they bothered looking hard enough, but it wasn't directly reported anywhere with the government, especially federally. I'm totally not against having a simple filing system though and agree for most people for most years it would be way simpler. Just pointing out a spot where you're incorrect on the federal government, especially the IRS, knowing everything. You're getting really angry at me about things I've never said. Probably time to calm down my dude.
        BugsJustFindMe 3y ago
        I'm not angry at you. Sorry if it came across that way. I was referencing the other comments upthread not made by you that seem like a bad faith troll.
- justrealist 3y ago
  The arrogance in just assuming you know this with confidence after a few seconds of googling is truly something. Here, I have a link of my own: https://www.attomdata.com/news/most-recent/do-you-know-what-non-disclosure-states-are/ https://www.attomdata.com/news/most-recent/do-you-know-what-... That site may use voluntary reporting or MLS records, but nobody is under any obligation whatsoever to report the price for private sales.
  - BugsJustFindMe 3y ago
    Dunno what to tell you, friend. Take it up with your local office of revenue, I guess. The government website is right there providing all the information I said and more. And if there are ever limitations relating to "the general public", the IRS isn't a member of that category. AND, your bank and investment agencies definitely report everything you put into them. So now you must also be talking about non-disclosed property sales for _cash_, as in paper bills and coins under the mattress. Doing a lot of that, are you? But tell me more about what percentage of all federal filings you believe would be affected by undisclosed property sales.
    - justrealist 3y ago
      > Dunno what to tell you, friend. The adult thing would be "Wow I guess I had no idea what I was talking about".
    - vel0city 3y ago
      Just so you know, yiure doubling down on being wrong about this site having the data here. https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/data/address-search/index.cfm?parcelId=13030001900 https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/data/address-search/index.cfm?par... How much did the current owners buy it off the church for? And sure, some agency might have some notification about some wire transfer that happened. It doesn't mean they know what it related to. It doesn't mean the IRS has any knowledge of it. The IRS probably didn't know and wouldn't know about the kids I have until I told them about it. Sure the federal government would have theoretically known about it from telling the Social Security Administration (not necessarily a requirement!) and later applying for a passport, but the IRS wouldn't automatically know these things. If I told your cousin something do you instantly know it? Federal agencies suck at sharing information. I do agree we can simplify filing income taxes for the vast majority of people. I agree most of the US doesn't have a kid every year, isn't in a non-reporting real estate state, don't do a ton of stock day trading, isn't donating half their income to charities, etc. But you shouldn't assume the IRS truly knows all your tax situation, and I'd recommend still looking over that simplified return if you've had an odd year if we ever get there.
- tzs 3y ago
  Whether or not house sale prices in Missouri are in the public record depends on the county. You picked a county where they are. In some counties they re not.
vel0city 3y ago
> Yes I think everyone would be enthusiastic about submitting taxes that are 87% accurate. This wouldn't change accuracy, if anything it might increase accuracy by simplifying it for the vast majority of filers. Nobody is saying you wouldn't be able to file just like you do today, but being able to just review a card of what the government already knows and OK'ing if right would make it massively simpler for 87% of tax filers. You could still have fun spending hours filling out several forms for your odd tax situation.

BugsJustFindMe 3y ago

>In my state (Missouri) house sale prices are not public record. That's a weird wrong thing you think. Visit https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/data/address-search/index.cfm https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/data/address-search/index.cfm and put in any address in St Louis MO and you'll see who owns it, when it sold, how much it sold for, how much property tax they owe, the bounds of their lot, and more. Here's an example, randomly selected from google maps: https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/data/address-search/index.cfm?parcelId=55400003600&lat=886322.89069&long=1000922.36148&addr=4345+DELOR+ST+ST+LOUIS+MO+63116&CategoryBy=form.start%2Cform.RealEstatePropertyInfor%2Cform.BoundaryGeography%2Cform.ResidentialServices%2Cform.TrashMaintenance%2Cform.ElectedOfficialsContacts&firstview=true#address-search https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/data/address-search/index.cfm?par... This is standard. > Yes I think everyone would be enthusiastic about submitting taxes that are 87% accurate. I'm going to ignore this obvious bad faith trolling.

vel0city 3y ago
That's tax assessed values, not necessarily the actual sale amounts. The assessed value of my house has never been the same as my actual purchase price.
- BugsJustFindMe 3y ago
  > That's tax assessed values, not necessarily the actual sale amounts. Scroll like 12.5 more pixels. The next section immediately below tax assessed value says "Sales Data" and includes a column for "Sale Price".
  - vel0city 3y ago
    Having some data isn't the same as having all the data.
    - BugsJustFindMe 3y ago
      Tell me more about how having all of the data for most people and almost all of the data for the rest is like having no data at all for anyone. Because I'm struggling to see the connection to that last step. The fact remains through all of this that the IRS does actually have _all_ of the needed information for the vast majority of tax filings. It's an extremely bad faith reach to be like "but maybe I sell my house for bags of paper cash (no banks) every year without telling anyone but want the IRS to know about it" and pretend like that's not an absolutely obnoxiously absurd argument against doing something that would help nearly everyone in the country. Because, let us be absolutely clear, the vast vaaast majority of everyone in the country live in other states, do report sales even if they do live in those states this person is making the claim about, don't sell or buy houses all that often if at all, and especially don't do it without involving a reporting financial institution.
      - vel0city 3y ago
        I'm not saying anything about the IRS system, I'm just saying the federal government definitely doesn't have all household sales data for all residential sales. It's not required filing in Missouri and several other states. The federal government likely has zero clue what I spent to buy my house. They could probably find it if they bothered looking hard enough, but it wasn't directly reported anywhere with the government, especially federally. I'm totally not against having a simple filing system though and agree for most people for most years it would be way simpler. Just pointing out a spot where you're incorrect on the federal government, especially the IRS, knowing everything. You're getting really angry at me about things I've never said. Probably time to calm down my dude.
        BugsJustFindMe 3y ago
        I'm not angry at you. Sorry if it came across that way. I was referencing the other comments upthread not made by you that seem like a bad faith troll.
justrealist 3y ago
The arrogance in just assuming you know this with confidence after a few seconds of googling is truly something. Here, I have a link of my own: https://www.attomdata.com/news/most-recent/do-you-know-what-non-disclosure-states-are/ https://www.attomdata.com/news/most-recent/do-you-know-what-... That site may use voluntary reporting or MLS records, but nobody is under any obligation whatsoever to report the price for private sales.
- BugsJustFindMe 3y ago
  Dunno what to tell you, friend. Take it up with your local office of revenue, I guess. The government website is right there providing all the information I said and more. And if there are ever limitations relating to "the general public", the IRS isn't a member of that category. AND, your bank and investment agencies definitely report everything you put into them. So now you must also be talking about non-disclosed property sales for _cash_, as in paper bills and coins under the mattress. Doing a lot of that, are you? But tell me more about what percentage of all federal filings you believe would be affected by undisclosed property sales.
  - justrealist 3y ago
    > Dunno what to tell you, friend. The adult thing would be "Wow I guess I had no idea what I was talking about".
  - vel0city 3y ago
    Just so you know, yiure doubling down on being wrong about this site having the data here. https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/data/address-search/index.cfm?parcelId=13030001900 https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/data/address-search/index.cfm?par... How much did the current owners buy it off the church for? And sure, some agency might have some notification about some wire transfer that happened. It doesn't mean they know what it related to. It doesn't mean the IRS has any knowledge of it. The IRS probably didn't know and wouldn't know about the kids I have until I told them about it. Sure the federal government would have theoretically known about it from telling the Social Security Administration (not necessarily a requirement!) and later applying for a passport, but the IRS wouldn't automatically know these things. If I told your cousin something do you instantly know it? Federal agencies suck at sharing information. I do agree we can simplify filing income taxes for the vast majority of people. I agree most of the US doesn't have a kid every year, isn't in a non-reporting real estate state, don't do a ton of stock day trading, isn't donating half their income to charities, etc. But you shouldn't assume the IRS truly knows all your tax situation, and I'd recommend still looking over that simplified return if you've had an odd year if we ever get there.
tzs 3y ago
Whether or not house sale prices in Missouri are in the public record depends on the county. You picked a county where they are. In some counties they re not.

vel0city 3y ago

> Yes I think everyone would be enthusiastic about submitting taxes that are 87% accurate. This wouldn't change accuracy, if anything it might increase accuracy by simplifying it for the vast majority of filers. Nobody is saying you wouldn't be able to file just like you do today, but being able to just review a card of what the government already knows and OK'ing if right would make it massively simpler for 87% of tax filers. You could still have fun spending hours filling out several forms for your odd tax situation.