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You can view their financial statements [1]. I am sure the 'casino' category includes things besides gambling, but it looks like the largest share of their reve

You can view their financial statements [1]. I am sure the 'casino' category includes things besides gambling, but it looks like the largest share of their revenue. [1] https://investor.caesars.com/news-releases/news-release-details/caesars-entertainment-inc-reports-fourth-quarter-and-full-year-0 https://investor.caesars.com/news-releases/news-release-deta...

somenameforme 3y ago
Be sure to subtract expenses. So for 2022 you have 2500 for casino, 500 for food, 1500 for hotel, 800 for "other." And there's definitely some counterintuitive accounting going on there, because that 2500 would imply a profit margin of 41% on casino, but Vegas regulations require gaming machines to pay out at least 75%, leaving a profit margin max of 25%. The card games and other games of skill wouldn't have such restrictions, but it seems pretty difficult to imagine that they'd be high enough margin to result an overall of 41%.
- zmgsabst 3y ago
  You seem to misunderstand the 75% rate: The requirement is that the expected value for a play on a machine is >75%. And most are >90%. But that’s not a cap on profit margin, as 25% of the expense for a play may be more than the cost of that play. Eg, having a machine that costs $1 with $0.75 expected return (and $0.25 revenue for the casino) may only cost the casino $0.10 a play — which would be a 60% profit margin.
  - somenameforme 3y ago
    Expected return on a machine and profit margin on that machine are literally identical. Imagine there's a hypothetical $1 machine where we simply remove variance. So you insert $1 and you get $0.75 back. It should be clear that for each $1 of revenue, the casino profits $0.25. This is a 25% profit margin. Variance can add some noise, but does not change the long-term expectation, which is what the regulations are based on.
    - andy800 3y ago
      You don't understand casino accounting. Gaming WIN is revenue. If you put $100 in and get $75 out, that's $25 in marginal revenue with zero corresponding costs. The $100 is a statistic that the casino records, but it does not factor into profit calculations (total, or margin). Gaming does have expenses -- labor (mostly dealers and slot attendants & mechanics), costs of purchasing and leasing the machines, and some other miscellaneous stuff... but profit margins on pure gaming are very high (and not limited in any way by the 25% maximum hold percentage that you reference)
    - boomboomsubban 3y ago
      Look at it a different way. The casino never had that dollar, you inserted a quarter and they gave you light show that cost them a cent to put on. You enjoyed it so much, you did it four times. Now the casino has your dollar and it's "costs" were four cents in electricity/maintenance. A much higher profit tham 25%.
    - dmurray 3y ago
      That sounds intuitive, but that's just not how revenue is defined for a business like a casino. The casino had $0.25 revenue, and its profit is whatever is left from the $0.25 after paying for heat, light, maintenance, cashiers, security, etc. Other businesses are treated like this too. If you are a high frequency trading firm and you buy 1000 shares stock for $99.99 each and sell for $100, you didn't have $100k of revenue - you had $10, and your profit is what's left after paying for staff and computers. Yes, if your business was a supermarket, it would indeed work the other way, and it's not obvious to the literal- minded where one treatment should stop and the other should start.
      - zmgsabst 3y ago
        This is similar to not counting bank deposits as revenue and withdrawals as costs. Only when your money goes to pay fees is it booked as bank revenue. The same for money transmitters like Western Union. And perhaps is more obvious when you consider what happens when there’s only players, eg, poker. The pot is held in trust, until the game ends and the losers forfeit their money to the winner. At no point does it belong to the casino. That doesn’t change when the casino is also a player.

somenameforme 3y ago

Be sure to subtract expenses. So for 2022 you have 2500 for casino, 500 for food, 1500 for hotel, 800 for "other." And there's definitely some counterintuitive accounting going on there, because that 2500 would imply a profit margin of 41% on casino, but Vegas regulations require gaming machines to pay out at least 75%, leaving a profit margin max of 25%. The card games and other games of skill wouldn't have such restrictions, but it seems pretty difficult to imagine that they'd be high enough margin to result an overall of 41%.

zmgsabst 3y ago
You seem to misunderstand the 75% rate: The requirement is that the expected value for a play on a machine is >75%. And most are >90%. But that’s not a cap on profit margin, as 25% of the expense for a play may be more than the cost of that play. Eg, having a machine that costs $1 with $0.75 expected return (and $0.25 revenue for the casino) may only cost the casino $0.10 a play — which would be a 60% profit margin.
- somenameforme 3y ago
  Expected return on a machine and profit margin on that machine are literally identical. Imagine there's a hypothetical $1 machine where we simply remove variance. So you insert $1 and you get $0.75 back. It should be clear that for each $1 of revenue, the casino profits $0.25. This is a 25% profit margin. Variance can add some noise, but does not change the long-term expectation, which is what the regulations are based on.
  - andy800 3y ago
    You don't understand casino accounting. Gaming WIN is revenue. If you put $100 in and get $75 out, that's $25 in marginal revenue with zero corresponding costs. The $100 is a statistic that the casino records, but it does not factor into profit calculations (total, or margin). Gaming does have expenses -- labor (mostly dealers and slot attendants & mechanics), costs of purchasing and leasing the machines, and some other miscellaneous stuff... but profit margins on pure gaming are very high (and not limited in any way by the 25% maximum hold percentage that you reference)
  - boomboomsubban 3y ago
    Look at it a different way. The casino never had that dollar, you inserted a quarter and they gave you light show that cost them a cent to put on. You enjoyed it so much, you did it four times. Now the casino has your dollar and it's "costs" were four cents in electricity/maintenance. A much higher profit tham 25%.
  - dmurray 3y ago
    That sounds intuitive, but that's just not how revenue is defined for a business like a casino. The casino had $0.25 revenue, and its profit is whatever is left from the $0.25 after paying for heat, light, maintenance, cashiers, security, etc. Other businesses are treated like this too. If you are a high frequency trading firm and you buy 1000 shares stock for $99.99 each and sell for $100, you didn't have $100k of revenue - you had $10, and your profit is what's left after paying for staff and computers. Yes, if your business was a supermarket, it would indeed work the other way, and it's not obvious to the literal- minded where one treatment should stop and the other should start.
    - zmgsabst 3y ago
      This is similar to not counting bank deposits as revenue and withdrawals as costs. Only when your money goes to pay fees is it booked as bank revenue. The same for money transmitters like Western Union. And perhaps is more obvious when you consider what happens when there’s only players, eg, poker. The pot is held in trust, until the game ends and the losers forfeit their money to the winner. At no point does it belong to the casino. That doesn’t change when the casino is also a player.