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I am so glad to see this backlash. It's been a long time coming. We've tried smartphones out for the past... oh, decade and change. They've been around longe

• deely3 3y ago
  > they ruin social interactions in public situations (think "talking to people in the grocery line" I DONT WANT TO TALK to people in grocery line, especially when I don't have a phone. I perfectly ok to just stand quietly. > they're utterly toxic for teenagers sometimes, and still we have to be sure that its a phone and not society.
  • dorkwood 3y ago
    > I DONT WANT TO TALK to people in grocery line, especially when I don't have a phone. I perfectly ok to just stand quietly. I do! My day is almost always made better by a random encounter with a stranger. I wish I was confident enough to start those interactions myself, but I always inevitably think back to messages such as yours, and my anxiety gets the better of me.
    • CalRobert 3y ago
      I'd love to have phone / no phone sections ( or chat / no chat ) in places like subways, airports, etc. I love taking to random people but don't want to bother then if they don't want to talk. Having kids helps inasmuch as my eldest will talk to every kid she sees and that usually means at least a hello to the parent.
      • dorkwood 3y ago
        When visiting London I noticed they have something called a "happy to chat bench", which you're supposed to sit on if you don't mind someone trying to strike up a conversation with you. I'm not a resident, so I'm not sure how useful they are in practice, but I found the concept interesting.
      • maccard 3y ago
        Have those ever existed though, really? I used to take a long bus or train most weekends, before smartphones were everywhere, and the vast majority of people were using earphones or reading - not talking to strangers.
        • CalRobert 3y ago
          It depends on where you are. I found that older people in Ireland (not ancient, just didn't grow up with phones) were often very happy to chat on the bus. Now I'm in the Netherlands and most of my chance interactions lately come from talking to other parents while my kids play in the street or playground. Funny enough I was at a playground a few weeks ago and my kids envied another kid's sled, they talked and the other kid was happy to share, and I talked to the dad who had also moved here from Ireland and even had similar interests (Green party member, etc.). Sure, usually it's a pleasant hello and then not much, but sometimes you meet people you get on with really well. I don't think that would have happened if I had just been sitting on the bench looking at my phone while my kids played.
          • maccard 3y ago
            That weekly bus/train was in Ireland, funnily enough. > most of my chance interactions lately come from talking to other parents while my kids play in the street or playground. I think there's a signal here that's the difference. If I'm on a bus, I probably don't want to talk to anyone. Similarly, if I'm in a grocery store, I don't want to talk to someone in the baking aisle, I just want sugar. But if I'm out with my kid/dog, I know that's an inherently more sociable situation that may end in an interaction. > Sure, usually it's a pleasant hello and then not much, but sometimes you meet people you get on with really well. I've a dog and live in Edinburgh, I've found that the people I get on with are people I see repeatedly. Neither of us made the effort the first time, but after 2 weeks of seeing each other every morning at 8:30 in the rain and the dogs saying hello to each other, you can end up talking. I immediately have more in common with this person than going to the same destination as them, for example!
  • okr 3y ago
    It is just a theory, but i think, apps were often written by people, who want to avoid conversations with strangers, who can exert some kind of power, who say no arbitrarily, because they can. At some point it took off and it became business as usual and since then its rolling. But i suspect there is much more and many people are not like that. It should be richer and not so monotone.
  • lm28469 3y ago
    > we have to be sure that its a phone and not society. Are we really at that level of discussion ? Smartphones, and the web, clearly have a magnifying effect on many topics which are detrimental in a lot of cases Human nature didn't magically change in 2007 when god emperor Steve Jobs shat out the first smartphone
    • deely3 3y ago
      Yes, we always at this level of discussion. Smartphone is a tool, not a sentinent thing that commands you what to do. Its always the simplest way to forbid something, but I think we have to be more caution with easy ways.
      • lm28469 3y ago
        A nuclear bomb is just a tool, fentanyl is just a tool, an AR15 is just a tool, and guess what ? all these things are heavily regulated "it's just a tool" is level 0 of argumentation. What is the tool used for ? What are the people in control of said tool getting from it ? Who's benefiting for it ? Who's getting abused by it ? &c. We can collectively make decision about things, we've done it on thousands of different subject for thousands of years, history didn't stop in 2007
        • deely3 3y ago
          Now you suddenly shifting your arguments into 'its not regulated enough'. And now you yourself using level 0 argument that we implemented regulations in the past. Look, if you just want to win this discussion then please imagine that I agree with you, that my comment is "oh, Im so wrong and you so right" and go fight in comments with someone else.
• reacharavindh 3y ago
  As is most things in life, the balance is the hardest thing to achieve. I’d think of giving up my smartphone, but that’d mean I’d not be able to use WhatsApp to communicate with family and friends that are on it. Heck the parents group at my kids school is on WhatsApp. I’m not going to make everyone switch to “this other special” app. I gotta be where others are in this context. Another is Maps - it is modern convenience that is hard to live without. Not only do I get turn-by-turn navigation, but I can quickly check whether the shop I want to go to is open or not. No, a Garmin device on a car doesn’t really solve that elegantly. Thirdly, majority of my actions are on a web browser and it often happens when I’m mobile. Sure, I could remember things and then find them when I’m at my desk - yeah, I’m not going to remember that.. Fourth - my phone is my camera. I have pictures of my family memories, daily utility stuff.. even quickly taking a picture of a design I see somewhere as inspiration to stash it in my Notes. I can’t imagine giving up that convenience. I’m however conscious of the bad effects of having the social drug on my hands. I don’t have Facebook, Instagram, Reddit, Snapchat, TikTok, games or the like Apps on my phone. My battery usage report says 70% of the time was spent on web browser, and my mini iPhone lasts 1.5 days on a full charge.
  • billywhizz 3y ago
    i have been back on a dumbphone for quite some time now. i use the web almost exclusively on laptop - when i am mobile i don't want to be connected to it. whatsapp works great in the browser on a laptop. if you only have a dumbphone you can use your number to register the whatsapp "app" on any tablet and can then log in on any other browser you want to use it on. works super nice.
    • anonymousDan 3y ago
      Wait what? Since when can you use Whatsapp on a laptop? That and maps are the only reason I still have a smart-phone.
      • ale42 3y ago
        It's possible since at least 2 years, maybe more. You still need a smartphone to create the account, but apparently you don't need the phone to be online, at least not all the time, not sure if it keeps working if it's offline for months. (note I'm not a Whatsapp user, so maybe it changed again or I didn't fully see something...)
• Broken_Hippo 3y ago
  My smartphone has replaced things that I used to carry. It is a tool. And as a bonus, I can pass time while waiting - doctors office, etc - which makes me more pleasant. My smartphone functions as a watch, notetaking device, and communication device. I rarely get lost now that I almost always have a map. It is a music device, which is really helpful considering I walk and take busses for most of my transportation. The sole reason I've not had to carry around a wordbook is because I have a translation app on my phone. It is much easier to choose to not carry a purse or bag, which sometimes makes me safer. Not to mention that I have internet on my phone, which is better than phone books ever were. Looking stuff up saves money and time if you use it correctly. You shouldn't expect folks to talk to you at the grocery store: That wasn't exactly a universal thing everywhere. Seems like this is just you missing something that others don't - and not everyone needs this stuff to fill their social interaction quotas.
  • okr 3y ago
    Yep, i agree, it is a universal tool, a swiss knife, so to say. That is what i pay for. Yet, many apps on it are addictive, that i would prefer not to be. Those things I don't want in my life, just like access to drugs. But it is tough, as these apps are mostly connected with other people, friends mostly... and i want that too.
  • Affric 3y ago
    You complain about people being friendly. You complain about having to actually learn a language. It sounds like your phone is preventing you from the very normal human interactions that made society pleasant. There’s no amount of asserting that others are uninteresting that can convince me that a society is better when strangers only interact transactionally.
    • Broken_Hippo 3y ago
      I'm not complaining about learning a language. I'm simply stating that I have had a much better tool that can help me - which covers more than a wordbook could and is faster and means that I wasn't carrying around a book. Merely a phone/watch/communication device. I'll add that not everyone needs to learn a language to make use of wordbooks and translation apps. Vacations exist. Temporary work assignments exist, the sort of which are much shorter than the time it would take to learn a language to even an intermediate level. Heck, my required language classes lasted 2 years at 18 hours a week of classroom time, which is definitely longer than work assignments. And no, forced pleasantries at a gas station doesn't make people friendly. Plus it is labor for the cashier. I shouldn't be shamed for not paying attention to everyone on a bus and listening to music instead. This stuff isn't people being nice, it is people doing obligatory thing. A heart-felt thanks isn't the same as the one your mother made you say - greater society is similar. And I'll add that it isn't really making society pleasant: That sort of smalltalk isn't universal. I moved from the US Midwest to Norway, which really hasn't expected folks to chat up cashiers or talk to strangers on the bus. Society here isn't unpleasant, though.
• Aurornis 3y ago
  > The results are solidly in: They're an utter disaster for most people, and for society at large. In no particular order, they ruin social interactions in public situations (think "talking to people in the grocery line" - though I've seen fewer people on their phones lately and can get some conversations going), I’m in the age group that is just old enough to remember adult life before everyone had smartphones. Honestly, it’s getting weird to read people’s unrealistically idealistic descriptions of life before smartphones. I don’t recall people striking up conversations in grocery lines before smart phones, nor would I have been interested in it. I think people also downplay how much smartphones just replaced rampant TV consumption for people who like to be entertained constantly. The same people who can’t entertain themselves without their smartphone and who consume toxic content would probably be sitting in front of TVs and watching Jerry Springer type shows instead of scrolling /r/relationships or watching Fox News talking heads instead of whatever weird political thing they’re consuming. Smartphones changed many things, but the idyllic offline-first fantasies I keep reading about weren’t reality before smartphones either. If you find yourself unable to moderate consumption, then ditching the smartphone is a good idea for you. However, I reject the idea that all techies need to reject technology and smartphones and embrace an extremist anti-position on the matter. Personally, I handle smartphone usage just fine as do most of the adults around me. People should recognize when they have a problem, but projecting their own solution on to everyone else is about as appealing as the person who had a problem with drinking too much trying to insist that nobody else should drink any alcohol at all either. I also use my smartphone for important things like maps, taking photos, keeping lists, and even paying for groceries if I forget my wallet. The way some people talk about smartphones as if they were just social media scrolling devices and nothing more is entirely foreign to how I use my phone.
  • CalRobert 3y ago
    I wish I had a photo to share, but there's a museum on Bere Island in southwestern Ireland about the island's people and history. It's a TINY island with a few hundred people on it. One of the exhibits shows pictures of how people would gather at the one street corner (I mean, it was a dirt path, not a "street" as you imagine it) and dance and play music on Friday nights until late. And then how that died out after TV showed up.
• saiya-jin 3y ago
  Wait till you see folks with fashion smartwatch being constantly immediately interrupted with all stupid notifications, its like advanced OCD factory for almost 0 added value. Then they turn it off, but usually this won't last, you can't brag about it so much and that 2s dopamine kick is missing. Maybe some secret cabal of psychologists are actually behind it to raise their revenue.
  • wholinator2 3y ago
    It's not secret [1]. It's very well known that tech companies will consult psychologists with the goal to make their products more addictive. [1] https://nypost.com/2019/08/13/big-tech-is-using-psychology-to-glue-us-to-our-screens/ https://nypost.com/2019/08/13/big-tech-is-using-psychology-t...
    • saiya-jin 3y ago
      That may be true yet even smart folks affected ran to them like there is no tomorrow, long term consequences be damned, I need my notifications now !
• j4yav 3y ago
  The videos coming out of people walking around, driving, on the subway, or otherwise in public places with Vision Pros interacting with invisible computers I hope is a shocking enough image that we don’t go down that road but I guess it’s just going to become what people see as normal. If nothing else it makes it obvious who is trying to plug themselves into the matrix so you can stay away.
  • wholinator2 3y ago
    I'm not convinced it's not just a viral marketing stunt with each of those videos being "paid" actors. It's heavily in apple's profit interest if people stop thinking of those things as cringey to be seen with. But honestly I'm not convinced anyone other than the ubiquitous 'clout chasers' and 'scamfluencers' actually thinks it's acceptable to wear one of those in public.
    • j4yav 3y ago
      People wore Google glass in public (hence glasshole), not sure why this would be different.
• ironmanszombie 3y ago
  When TikTok first came out, I thought it was ridiculous that people would just keep scrolling short videos for hours. I got sick one day, check it out, and spent half a day scrolling. I immediately uninstalled it. I like having a smartphone. And as I have no kids, I only go home a few hours before I am to sleep. I can't have my workstation in my car, but the phone suffices most days. But your opinion got me thinking: what gadget would I replace my phone with? Maybe a flip phone, a kindle, and one of those AI rabbit gadgets.
• tristor 3y ago
  I'm curmudgeonly enough that I'd tend to agree with you, however as someone who travels often I don't think I could ever give up my smartphone. I actually had a smartphone and some other similar devices well ahead of them being popular, and the reasons pretty much have not changed. Here are the things I don't have a reasonable alternative, because it's not just the capability, it's the capability backed by the Internet that is valuable: 1. Translation 2. Maps and Directions 3. Ticketing Services 4. Ride Hailing Services 5. Weather 6. Camera 7. Making calls from anywhere to anywhere None of those are necessarily what people think of first when they hear "smartphone", but without them traveling would be a pretty difficult experience. I know firsthand, because I traveled prior to having these things. I had to deal with the expense policy at work trying to figure out how to get and handle cash in multiple countries so I could pay for a taxi and risk getting ripped off, or buy a train ticket. I had to carry around a phrase book and hope my pronunciation was close enough to get things done without offending anyone. I had to deal with paper maps, and get lost, and hope I made appointments on time. I had to roll around a wheeled pelican case with camera gear to get any decent photos, taking up precious space and making me stand out. And for the weather, well, I just looked outside and hoped I brought the right clothes. I don't use social media, except Hacker News (if that counts). I don't really do any of the things you probably think of when you think of smartphones being problematic, but having this devices has made my life immeasurably better. So much so, that it's probably the most essential thing in my travel kit.
  • snarkyturtle 3y ago
    Really it's just social media that's terrible. If all the social media apps go away, you still get left with all the above and can contact people you know. Algorithmic recommendations and flame wars with strangers are the worst things about smartphones — and they're not limited to them either.
    • didntcheck 3y ago
      Yep. It's kind of annoying to see people be so fatalistic about their self control that they think the only solution is to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I carry my smartphone everywhere for the useful functions detailed above, but the closest I get to social media is some idle HN commenting if I'm unexpectedly waiting around somewhere. It's really not hard to just not spend all day on Twitter of whatever. The device is just a scapegoat. It's like blaming a microwave for a poor diet, ignoring the usefulness of on-demand heating for better uses I do resent things that require smartphone though. E.g. parking or ordering in some places. And especially if they require your device to be certified as locked down by the Google-Apple duopoly
• JohnFen 3y ago
  I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, getting rid of my smartphone is very important. There are very large benefits to having one, but I think that the drawbacks, of the sort you're talking about as well as the privacy/security issues with them, are larger than the benefits. They are a net negative. And I don't even use social media. It wasn't always so. This equation became unfavorable just a handful of years ago. And the fact that it's hard enough to give them up that I need a transition period gives even greater urgency to the need for me to give them up.
• wsatb 3y ago
  Is it the smart phone that's the problem or what's on the smart phone? Sounds more like the latter.