5 ms·

Not a fan of what DEF CON has become in the last years, so I selfishly hope it somehow "goes away" and reborn in a more technical and actual hacker note. Too m

Not a fan of what DEF CON has become in the last years, so I selfishly hope it somehow "goes away" and reborn in a more technical and actual hacker note. Too many "security researchers", "staff engineers" and people playing politics. But I suspect they will have no problem finding another venue, sponsor money has been flowing quite well, so I wish them well.

tptacek 3y ago
There are dozens of other conferences that do anything else you want a security conference to do. The point of Defcon at this point is to be the giant annual social event.
- rockskon 3y ago
  Well it's not going to do so well for that at the LVCC given the distance away from hotel parties.
  - tptacek 3y ago
    It was famously at Alexis Park for years, which might as well be the moon if you're at Caesar's.
    - busterarm 3y ago
      And when it was at AP maybe 5000 people were attending? Today it's like 25k. And AP was tolerant of people treating their property like garbage. Caesars' certainly doesn't.
    - getoffmyyawn 3y ago
      I started going to def con before the AP and I feel now that the AP were def con's golden years. At least for what I like best about it. It's nice that it has continued to grow and reach more people but it has also changed a lot from what it used to be to what it is now.
  - busterarm 3y ago
    Agreed, that's a pretty terrible location given what defcon is and at its current size.
verandaguy 3y ago
I don't have a ton of love for politicking, but security researchers and staff engineers, a lot of the time, are people who either have a career in a really interesting area in infosec and can bring a lot to the table as teachers/presenters, or people who want to get into that area and who'd benefit massively from a place like DEF CON considering how accessible its talks, demos, and villages are to people of all skill levels. Socialising, learning hacking history, and getting to know the traditions is always a great side effect that the DC crowd's been good at passing on to new generations. Goons still give people shit for misbehaving, speakers still take shots, TOOOL still has some of the best workshops and tutorials on the conference floor and usually has some people who'll talk about breaking open Medecos or Fichets to anyone who'll listen. I'd venture to say it's against the spirit of the con to try and gatekeep it. Having said all that (and the irony not being lost on me) -- linecon's definitely getting worse, and I'm worried that DC's becoming a victim of its own success, with its accessible pricing and subject matter being counterbalanced by having to manage a 20-30k person crowd. I don't have a solution for this outside of decentralization, but I don't know if that's a good solution.
- merlincorey 3y ago
  > TOOOL still has some of the best workshops and tutorials on the conference floor and usually has some people who'll talk about breaking open Medecos or Fichets to anyone who'll listen. While you're over there look around for the Tamper Evident Village and we'll happily demonstrate and allow you to try removing Tamper Evident Seals of various kinds.
  - verandaguy 3y ago
    Also very cool stuff. I always see TEV bogged down with tons of people so after 4 cons I still haven't had a chance -- and while I have to miss this year, I'll hopefully swing by next year and check it out!
- verandaguy 3y ago
  I can't edit my original comment anymore, but I'll add: OG DEF CON stuff still happens, too. Parties, secret parties, parties that take a full day or two of codebreaking a badge to get to, demoscene stuff, drinking, public art, you name it, it's there -- it takes a back seat because DC does have to focus on mass appeal these days (I believe, because of its accessibility promise coupled with the number of people coming out). I forgot these when I wrote my original post at 1AM :)

tptacek 3y ago

There are dozens of other conferences that do anything else you want a security conference to do. The point of Defcon at this point is to be the giant annual social event.

rockskon 3y ago
Well it's not going to do so well for that at the LVCC given the distance away from hotel parties.
- tptacek 3y ago
  It was famously at Alexis Park for years, which might as well be the moon if you're at Caesar's.
  - busterarm 3y ago
    And when it was at AP maybe 5000 people were attending? Today it's like 25k. And AP was tolerant of people treating their property like garbage. Caesars' certainly doesn't.
  - getoffmyyawn 3y ago
    I started going to def con before the AP and I feel now that the AP were def con's golden years. At least for what I like best about it. It's nice that it has continued to grow and reach more people but it has also changed a lot from what it used to be to what it is now.
- busterarm 3y ago
  Agreed, that's a pretty terrible location given what defcon is and at its current size.

verandaguy 3y ago

I don't have a ton of love for politicking, but security researchers and staff engineers, a lot of the time, are people who either have a career in a really interesting area in infosec and can bring a lot to the table as teachers/presenters, or people who want to get into that area and who'd benefit massively from a place like DEF CON considering how accessible its talks, demos, and villages are to people of all skill levels. Socialising, learning hacking history, and getting to know the traditions is always a great side effect that the DC crowd's been good at passing on to new generations. Goons still give people shit for misbehaving, speakers still take shots, TOOOL still has some of the best workshops and tutorials on the conference floor and usually has some people who'll talk about breaking open Medecos or Fichets to anyone who'll listen. I'd venture to say it's against the spirit of the con to try and gatekeep it. Having said all that (and the irony not being lost on me) -- linecon's definitely getting worse, and I'm worried that DC's becoming a victim of its own success, with its accessible pricing and subject matter being counterbalanced by having to manage a 20-30k person crowd. I don't have a solution for this outside of decentralization, but I don't know if that's a good solution.

merlincorey 3y ago
> TOOOL still has some of the best workshops and tutorials on the conference floor and usually has some people who'll talk about breaking open Medecos or Fichets to anyone who'll listen. While you're over there look around for the Tamper Evident Village and we'll happily demonstrate and allow you to try removing Tamper Evident Seals of various kinds.
- verandaguy 3y ago
  Also very cool stuff. I always see TEV bogged down with tons of people so after 4 cons I still haven't had a chance -- and while I have to miss this year, I'll hopefully swing by next year and check it out!
verandaguy 3y ago
I can't edit my original comment anymore, but I'll add: OG DEF CON stuff still happens, too. Parties, secret parties, parties that take a full day or two of codebreaking a badge to get to, demoscene stuff, drinking, public art, you name it, it's there -- it takes a back seat because DC does have to focus on mass appeal these days (I believe, because of its accessibility promise coupled with the number of people coming out). I forgot these when I wrote my original post at 1AM :)