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> you need to learn not to apply broad brush strokes to a large community. It’s a you problem. Ridiculous, it’s not their problem, it’s a vegan community probl

> you need to learn not to apply broad brush strokes to a large community. It’s a you problem. Ridiculous, it’s not their problem, it’s a vegan community problem. Let’s not pretend that it’s not a well earned reputation. The noise those zealots create within the community is so unusual and loud that you simply do not find that type of holier than thou condemnation behavior from literally any other diet’s adherents. I have had people bark at me from a sidewalk for enjoying a steak but I have never had someone bark at me from a sidewalk for enjoying a salad. I have seen people on HN send comment after comment on the evils of eating meat, but have yet to see anyone claim that eating vegetables is an evil act. If you don’t like the reputation, start policing your own.

matthewmacleod 3y ago
I don’t know how to explain to you that individuals aren’t responsible for the actions of others.
- kcplate 3y ago
  That is completely understood, but you also must realize (if you are being honest) that if you belong to a group that has developed a negative public reputation for itself because of some of its members negative behavior that the negative public reputation will bleed over to you by association. Conversely you can be a truly awful person within a group with a good public reputation and that good group reputation will apply to you too, even if you don’t deserve it.
mandmandam 3y ago
I'm not even vegetarian, much less a vegan. But it's not honest to draw a false equivalence between salad and meat. > Let’s not pretend that it’s not a well earned reputation. It's not. Judging a group by their loudest and most obnoxious members is lazy and intellectually dishonest; even if it happens all the time. Most vegans I know are placid and kind. I'd have to say that meat eaters are far more obnoxious about vegans than vice versa. Same as the people I know who complain about the 'stoner lifestyle' and think that this justifies prohibition. They're far more irritating to me than the average cannabis enthusiast, most of whom you wouldn't know from looking at them, and most of whom don't make cannabis their personality. Deep down, us meat eaters know that we're eating an animal that had feelings like ours (or we're ignorant). And, we know that the Western diet is contributing to deforestation and a burning planet (again, or we're willfully ignorant). Attacking vegans is like attacking a cyclist for believing in climate change, because a few cyclists had the audacity to suggest we use the car less or fund public transport. Popular - but lame.
- kcplate 3y ago
  >False equivalence between salad and meat You mean…like both being food that humans can eat? Regarding your other philosophical arguments for the behavior of preachy vegans—I don’t have any guilty feelings about the food that I eat that would lead me to be apologetic for the behavior of assholes. I also view other groups that have a public reputation for and have obnoxious members that want to proselytize their morality to me too…so this isn’t limited to vegans.
  - mandmandam 3y ago
    > You mean…like both being food that humans can eat? No, like the part where you need to slaughter and butcher a mammal with feelings and a social circle, after converting old growth forest to logs and pesticides. Surprised I need to spell that out tbh - you wouldn't be acting disingenuous, would you? > I don’t have any guilty feelings about the food that I eat that would lead me to be apologetic for the behavior of assholes. That doesn't mean you aren't feeling guilty, just that you've dissociated from your natural response. Cognitive dissonance is a real thing. And, who asked you to "be apologetic for the behavior of assholes"? Is this now about you feeling victimized somehow? Because one vegan, one time, said something to you from outside a restaurant? ... Okay, I guess. Weird though.
    - kcplate 3y ago
      You obviously carry guilt about what you eat that I do not have. Perhaps You turn the guilt you feel into an explanation and justification of a bad idea behavior of a certain people because you are morally conflicted about it. I am not morally conflicted and as such if someone wants to proselytize to me and attempt to impose their mortality and condemn me, I am well within my right to consider them an asshole. I am also capable of judging the behavior of many people who share that same belief and express the same proselytizing here on HN as representatives of that same group…and by their behavior define the qualities and beliefs of that group. I damn sure don’t see the gentle and non-judgemental members disagreeing with those assholes when they get loud. Their silence is compliance. So it’s not just one, but many, and judging from the lack of apparent public disagreement within that group it’s a well deserved reputation.

matthewmacleod 3y ago

I don’t know how to explain to you that individuals aren’t responsible for the actions of others.

kcplate 3y ago
That is completely understood, but you also must realize (if you are being honest) that if you belong to a group that has developed a negative public reputation for itself because of some of its members negative behavior that the negative public reputation will bleed over to you by association. Conversely you can be a truly awful person within a group with a good public reputation and that good group reputation will apply to you too, even if you don’t deserve it.

mandmandam 3y ago

I'm not even vegetarian, much less a vegan. But it's not honest to draw a false equivalence between salad and meat. > Let’s not pretend that it’s not a well earned reputation. It's not. Judging a group by their loudest and most obnoxious members is lazy and intellectually dishonest; even if it happens all the time. Most vegans I know are placid and kind. I'd have to say that meat eaters are far more obnoxious about vegans than vice versa. Same as the people I know who complain about the 'stoner lifestyle' and think that this justifies prohibition. They're far more irritating to me than the average cannabis enthusiast, most of whom you wouldn't know from looking at them, and most of whom don't make cannabis their personality. Deep down, us meat eaters know that we're eating an animal that had feelings like ours (or we're ignorant). And, we know that the Western diet is contributing to deforestation and a burning planet (again, or we're willfully ignorant). Attacking vegans is like attacking a cyclist for believing in climate change, because a few cyclists had the audacity to suggest we use the car less or fund public transport. Popular - but lame.

kcplate 3y ago
>False equivalence between salad and meat You mean…like both being food that humans can eat? Regarding your other philosophical arguments for the behavior of preachy vegans—I don’t have any guilty feelings about the food that I eat that would lead me to be apologetic for the behavior of assholes. I also view other groups that have a public reputation for and have obnoxious members that want to proselytize their morality to me too…so this isn’t limited to vegans.
- mandmandam 3y ago
  > You mean…like both being food that humans can eat? No, like the part where you need to slaughter and butcher a mammal with feelings and a social circle, after converting old growth forest to logs and pesticides. Surprised I need to spell that out tbh - you wouldn't be acting disingenuous, would you? > I don’t have any guilty feelings about the food that I eat that would lead me to be apologetic for the behavior of assholes. That doesn't mean you aren't feeling guilty, just that you've dissociated from your natural response. Cognitive dissonance is a real thing. And, who asked you to "be apologetic for the behavior of assholes"? Is this now about you feeling victimized somehow? Because one vegan, one time, said something to you from outside a restaurant? ... Okay, I guess. Weird though.
  - kcplate 3y ago
    You obviously carry guilt about what you eat that I do not have. Perhaps You turn the guilt you feel into an explanation and justification of a bad idea behavior of a certain people because you are morally conflicted about it. I am not morally conflicted and as such if someone wants to proselytize to me and attempt to impose their mortality and condemn me, I am well within my right to consider them an asshole. I am also capable of judging the behavior of many people who share that same belief and express the same proselytizing here on HN as representatives of that same group…and by their behavior define the qualities and beliefs of that group. I damn sure don’t see the gentle and non-judgemental members disagreeing with those assholes when they get loud. Their silence is compliance. So it’s not just one, but many, and judging from the lack of apparent public disagreement within that group it’s a well deserved reputation.