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I just checked the Screen Time statistics, and my average daily screen time last week was 18 minutes, the week before that was 22 minutes. I've never been in da

I just checked the Screen Time statistics, and my average daily screen time last week was 18 minutes, the week before that was 22 minutes. I've never been in danger of becoming addicted to smart phones, just like I've never been in danger of being addicted to alcohol or gambling: none of them really appeal to me that much. But there are plenty of things I know I am addicted to, and I'm pretty sure the way to treat that addiction is to address the underlying issue for which the addiction is a response or a coping mechanism. Not to buy something and then pat yourself on the back. I very strongly doubt that just buying a flip phone is going to fix it; sorry folks (seriously).

iojggg 3y ago
[dead]
MattRix 3y ago
This ignores the fact that many of the apps people use are designed and A/B tested to maximize time spent/wasted. The fact that it happens to not work on you does not mean it works for everyone. Sometimes an addiction really is because something is designed to be incredibly addictive, not because of some underlying psychological issue with the user.
- dinkleberg 3y ago
  Uninstalling the apps is a good first step.
  - MattRix 3y ago
    The problem is that most of these apps have good and bad stuff on them. I get a lot of value out of high quality content on youtube, but I also have to try really hard to not get sucked into watching an endless stream of garbage youtube shorts. Also even if you delete the apps, most people are in social groups with people who still use them and send links to content on them. It’s hard to avoid them entirely.
- 15457345234 3y ago
  It's pure gaslighting 'it isn't the drug that's addictive, it's the user that has issues' lol no sweetie
  - goosejuice 3y ago
    Hardly 'pure gaslighting'. Both can be true. The user is a part of the equation.
    - 15457345234 3y ago
      The user is more likely to turn to a drug or their phone if they find their life unsatisfying but that doesn't alter the fact that the drug/phone can be far more stimulating than any experience they'd encounter 'organically' That's the issue; the real world can only offer up so much so fast. Drugs and the scroll can offer it faster. Expecting people to turn away from that even when it's visibly harming them isn't reasonable; we know for a fact it doesn't happen, people overdose on fentanyl and then immediately go back to buy more.
      - goosejuice 3y ago
        I think we agree that things are addictive. Perhaps we disagree on the practical approach to resolving that. You aren't going to rid the world of fentanyl or cell phones. So now what?
        15457345234 3y ago
        The physical world is hard to manipulate; the digital one less resistant to legislation. India banned TikTok by legislation and made it stick. Rule that social media properties are either dangerously addictive or enemy cyberweapons and ban them.
samstave 3y ago
Sure but I have a machine with 18 inches of my person basically 24/7. My phone won't tell you crap.
15457345234 3y ago
> the way to treat that addiction is to address the underlying issue Given that a very very large number of people are _visibly_ addicted to their phones, what would that look like, what action would you propose, what resources would be deployable? Are you saying that a majority of the population have an 'underlying issue' that needs to be addressed? What is that issue?
- goosejuice 3y ago
  There are many making money using manipulation and I certainly don't condone that. Hopefully we can push for regulations where it makes sense. Even still there will always be obstacles in life to overcome. CBT has been helpful for many so it may be a place to start. CBT can help one understand the underlying issue and replace the vice with a healthier coping mechanism.
  - 15457345234 3y ago
    I think this focus on their being an 'underlying issue' is problematic; many times there is no underlying issue, these are just normal humans with normal brains being totally normally affected by a product that's designed to be addictive. They don't need therapy because there's nothing wrong with them, in fact if there was something wrong with them they'd be less likely to become addicted. They just need to remove themselves from the influence of the addictive substance i.e. put the phone down, socialise normally and build strong bonds with their family and their local community. People by and large don't need therapy and to pathologise and dwell on nonexistent issues, they really just need to hang out more with other people and realise that what they're seeing online isn't representative of reality.
    - goosejuice 3y ago
      It sounds to me that we are in agreement on outcome, only that you feel that everyone can get there on their own. In fact you're almost describing CBT without naming it.
      - 3y ago
vonjuice 3y ago
How do you get to the underlying issues? An addiction is a layer of defense. It keeps you distracted from those underlying issues. If you remove part of it, you're not "fixing the problem and patting yourself on the back", you're getting a break from it in order to better look at those underlying issues from a distance.
dorkwood 3y ago
I spend longer than that just responding to people's messages. Do you use something else for messaging?

iojggg 3y ago

[dead]

MattRix 3y ago

This ignores the fact that many of the apps people use are designed and A/B tested to maximize time spent/wasted. The fact that it happens to not work on you does not mean it works for everyone. Sometimes an addiction really is because something is designed to be incredibly addictive, not because of some underlying psychological issue with the user.

dinkleberg 3y ago
Uninstalling the apps is a good first step.
- MattRix 3y ago
  The problem is that most of these apps have good and bad stuff on them. I get a lot of value out of high quality content on youtube, but I also have to try really hard to not get sucked into watching an endless stream of garbage youtube shorts. Also even if you delete the apps, most people are in social groups with people who still use them and send links to content on them. It’s hard to avoid them entirely.
15457345234 3y ago
It's pure gaslighting 'it isn't the drug that's addictive, it's the user that has issues' lol no sweetie
- goosejuice 3y ago
  Hardly 'pure gaslighting'. Both can be true. The user is a part of the equation.
  - 15457345234 3y ago
    The user is more likely to turn to a drug or their phone if they find their life unsatisfying but that doesn't alter the fact that the drug/phone can be far more stimulating than any experience they'd encounter 'organically' That's the issue; the real world can only offer up so much so fast. Drugs and the scroll can offer it faster. Expecting people to turn away from that even when it's visibly harming them isn't reasonable; we know for a fact it doesn't happen, people overdose on fentanyl and then immediately go back to buy more.
    - goosejuice 3y ago
      I think we agree that things are addictive. Perhaps we disagree on the practical approach to resolving that. You aren't going to rid the world of fentanyl or cell phones. So now what?
      - 15457345234 3y ago
        The physical world is hard to manipulate; the digital one less resistant to legislation. India banned TikTok by legislation and made it stick. Rule that social media properties are either dangerously addictive or enemy cyberweapons and ban them.

samstave 3y ago

Sure but I have a machine with 18 inches of my person basically 24/7. My phone won't tell you crap.

15457345234 3y ago

> the way to treat that addiction is to address the underlying issue Given that a very very large number of people are _visibly_ addicted to their phones, what would that look like, what action would you propose, what resources would be deployable? Are you saying that a majority of the population have an 'underlying issue' that needs to be addressed? What is that issue?

goosejuice 3y ago
There are many making money using manipulation and I certainly don't condone that. Hopefully we can push for regulations where it makes sense. Even still there will always be obstacles in life to overcome. CBT has been helpful for many so it may be a place to start. CBT can help one understand the underlying issue and replace the vice with a healthier coping mechanism.
- 15457345234 3y ago
  I think this focus on their being an 'underlying issue' is problematic; many times there is no underlying issue, these are just normal humans with normal brains being totally normally affected by a product that's designed to be addictive. They don't need therapy because there's nothing wrong with them, in fact if there was something wrong with them they'd be less likely to become addicted. They just need to remove themselves from the influence of the addictive substance i.e. put the phone down, socialise normally and build strong bonds with their family and their local community. People by and large don't need therapy and to pathologise and dwell on nonexistent issues, they really just need to hang out more with other people and realise that what they're seeing online isn't representative of reality.
  - goosejuice 3y ago
    It sounds to me that we are in agreement on outcome, only that you feel that everyone can get there on their own. In fact you're almost describing CBT without naming it.
    - 3y ago

vonjuice 3y ago

How do you get to the underlying issues? An addiction is a layer of defense. It keeps you distracted from those underlying issues. If you remove part of it, you're not "fixing the problem and patting yourself on the back", you're getting a break from it in order to better look at those underlying issues from a distance.

dorkwood 3y ago

I spend longer than that just responding to people's messages. Do you use something else for messaging?