4 ms·

You've completely missed my point. Feel free to re-read what I wrote. Just for reference, yes I code in both Objective-C AND Ruby. There are significant speed

by coffee 14y ago

You've completely missed my point. Feel free to re-read what I wrote. Just for reference, yes I code in both Objective-C AND Ruby. There are significant speed gains when using the tools/language you're most familiar with. I've seen this first hand with myself, and in others... It's not about "how easy it is to learn" it's about "how much time it takes." You're mixing together two entirely different topics.

chc 14y ago
I was specifically addressing this point (which seemed to be the crux of your comment): > Remove the concept of learning a new language, a new IDE, and only require that I learn a new lib to work against and I'm FAR quicker. That's a bit like saying, "Remove the concept of putting on running shoes and warming up and only require that I run a marathon and I'm FAR quicker." The time to tie your shoes is nothing compared to running the marathon. Likewise, the trouble of learning Objective-C (especially with a background in Ruby) is insignificant compared to the time it takes to learn Cocoa.
- coffee 14y ago
  > That's a bit like saying, "Remove the concept of putting on running shoes and warming up and only require that I run a marathon and I'm FAR quicker." It's not at all like saying that. Feel free to keep your words out of my mouth :) > ...is insignificant compared to the time it takes to learn Cocoa. I see you've changed from using the word "easy" to the word "learn." That's a step in the right direction :) Though, we are not comparing the time it takes to learn Cocoa vs. Objective-C. That was NOT the crux of my comment. Again, you're missing the point (you seem to be very talented at this). The comparison is with Ruby ;)
  - chc 14y ago
    I know you aren't comparing the time it takes to learn Cocoa vs. Objective-C. My point is that if you did make the comparison, you'd realize that if you have the time to learn Cocoa, you have the time to learn Objective-C, because the latter takes basically no time compared to the former. You get a time savings of like 0.05% by learning MacRuby instead of Objective-C.
    - coffee 14y ago
      No hostility :) You're just on the defensive, so it feels like hostility. It's understandable... > My point is that if you did make the comparison... But I didn't. I never compared the two. My statement was one of a speed gain by simply using the languages/tools you're most familiar with, instead of learning new languages/tools. It cuts out a lot of time, it's not a hard concept to understand ;)
      - chc 14y ago
        > No hostility :) > You're just on the defensive, so it feels like hostility. It's understandable... Really, no. I don't know if it's intentional or not, but you come across as very passive-aggressive and condescending. I don't even know what it is I'm supposed to be "on the defensive" about — the fact that learning Objective-C takes much less time than learning Cocoa? I feel pretty secure in that knowledge. > But I didn't. > I never compared the two. Yes, that is my point — your opinion has no sense of scale, because you haven't compared the two. You're talking about saving pennies on the price of a sports car. I just don't think it's a particularly pressing concern. If you're that worried about pennies, you're probably not in a position to buy that car. But, you know, whatever works for you.
        grey-area 14y ago
        Apparently the disconnect here comes because you think of a language as trivial (as compared to an API), however it's often hard to separate the language (syntax, and its built in methods), and the libraries which make up an API/standard library. In addition to the cost of learning a library/language, there is also a day to day cost in using it - a certain friction which encourages you to take some paths and not others. A language and the available tools constrains the way you think about problems you are solving, and in some cases might dictate the sort of solutions you come up with. For example, consider using regular expressions in Ruby to check a string - puts "The limits of my language define the limits of my world" if string =~ /foobar(\d*\w)/ or in Objective C: NSError *error = NULL; NSRegularExpression *regex = [NSRegularExpression regularExpressionWithPattern:@"foobar(\\d*\\w)" options:NSRegularExpressionCaseInsensitive error:&error]; NSTextCheckingResult *match = [regex firstMatchInString:string options:0 range:NSMakeRange(0, [string length])]; if (match) { NSLog(@"The limits of my language define the limits of my world - Wittgenstein") } Until quite recently it wasn't even possible to do this in ObjC without an external library.

by coffee 14y ago

chc 14y ago

I was specifically addressing this point (which seemed to be the crux of your comment): > Remove the concept of learning a new language, a new IDE, and only require that I learn a new lib to work against and I'm FAR quicker. That's a bit like saying, "Remove the concept of putting on running shoes and warming up and only require that I run a marathon and I'm FAR quicker." The time to tie your shoes is nothing compared to running the marathon. Likewise, the trouble of learning Objective-C (especially with a background in Ruby) is insignificant compared to the time it takes to learn Cocoa.

coffee 14y ago
> That's a bit like saying, "Remove the concept of putting on running shoes and warming up and only require that I run a marathon and I'm FAR quicker." It's not at all like saying that. Feel free to keep your words out of my mouth :) > ...is insignificant compared to the time it takes to learn Cocoa. I see you've changed from using the word "easy" to the word "learn." That's a step in the right direction :) Though, we are not comparing the time it takes to learn Cocoa vs. Objective-C. That was NOT the crux of my comment. Again, you're missing the point (you seem to be very talented at this). The comparison is with Ruby ;)
- chc 14y ago
  I know you aren't comparing the time it takes to learn Cocoa vs. Objective-C. My point is that if you did make the comparison, you'd realize that if you have the time to learn Cocoa, you have the time to learn Objective-C, because the latter takes basically no time compared to the former. You get a time savings of like 0.05% by learning MacRuby instead of Objective-C.
  - coffee 14y ago
    No hostility :) You're just on the defensive, so it feels like hostility. It's understandable... > My point is that if you did make the comparison... But I didn't. I never compared the two. My statement was one of a speed gain by simply using the languages/tools you're most familiar with, instead of learning new languages/tools. It cuts out a lot of time, it's not a hard concept to understand ;)
    - chc 14y ago
      > No hostility :) > You're just on the defensive, so it feels like hostility. It's understandable... Really, no. I don't know if it's intentional or not, but you come across as very passive-aggressive and condescending. I don't even know what it is I'm supposed to be "on the defensive" about — the fact that learning Objective-C takes much less time than learning Cocoa? I feel pretty secure in that knowledge. > But I didn't. > I never compared the two. Yes, that is my point — your opinion has no sense of scale, because you haven't compared the two. You're talking about saving pennies on the price of a sports car. I just don't think it's a particularly pressing concern. If you're that worried about pennies, you're probably not in a position to buy that car. But, you know, whatever works for you.
      - grey-area 14y ago
        Apparently the disconnect here comes because you think of a language as trivial (as compared to an API), however it's often hard to separate the language (syntax, and its built in methods), and the libraries which make up an API/standard library. In addition to the cost of learning a library/language, there is also a day to day cost in using it - a certain friction which encourages you to take some paths and not others. A language and the available tools constrains the way you think about problems you are solving, and in some cases might dictate the sort of solutions you come up with. For example, consider using regular expressions in Ruby to check a string - puts "The limits of my language define the limits of my world" if string =~ /foobar(\d*\w)/ or in Objective C: NSError *error = NULL; NSRegularExpression *regex = [NSRegularExpression regularExpressionWithPattern:@"foobar(\\d*\\w)" options:NSRegularExpressionCaseInsensitive error:&error]; NSTextCheckingResult *match = [regex firstMatchInString:string options:0 range:NSMakeRange(0, [string length])]; if (match) { NSLog(@"The limits of my language define the limits of my world - Wittgenstein") } Until quite recently it wasn't even possible to do this in ObjC without an external library.