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Right. And to be sure, GEB might have Godel in the name, but it's not really a book about Godel's incompleteness theorems. It mentions them, but that is not rea

Right. And to be sure, GEB might have Godel in the name, but it's not really a book about Godel's incompleteness theorems. It mentions them, but that is not really the main thrust of the book. It's not a book about Godel, Escher, and/or Bach, really (though of course it discusses the ideas of these three people a lot). Hofstadter, if I recall correctly, even says as much (or something along these lines) in the preface. So of course, there are more to-the-point resources for the technical concepts that Hofstadter employs. It's an understandable misconception to have when people so often say GEB is a must-read for techies and when it has a name that includes "Godel". So remember - GEB is about Hofstadter trying to argue for a point about a particular thesis (how the mind ("I") arises from the brain), and to that end, he employs many different concepts (many of which are from computer science) and explains them poetically (at least, a lot of people think so). But teaching you these concepts is just a secondary, even tertiary, goal of his. If you find his writing engaging, it might be a more fun way to learn about that stuff - but if not, don't worry, GEB wasn't primarily written to teach you anyway. I'm sure even the biggest GEB fans will agree.

dmazzoni 3y ago
It sounds like you're making a distinction between the plot and the theme. I'd argue the plot is entirely about Godel's incompleteness theorem. It's not just "mentioned in passing", the entire book is centered around a series of increasingly complex explanations that culminate in explaining the actual theorem itself. But just like a good novel is way, way more than just the plot, GEB is way more than just the Godel incompleteness theorem. Personally I didn't really find any other thesis or theme that compelling. However, I absolutely loved the clever ways in which he illustrated each concept. Others may have appreciated other aspects of it, and that's great too. Many people can enjoy the book for different reasons.
- knightoffaith 3y ago
  I shouldn't have said "mentioned" to insinuate "mentioned in passing", you are right. But no, though it plays a central role in his argument, GEB is not about Godel's incompleteness theorem (I believe Hofstadter even says as much in the preface, and he laments that readers didn't get the overall point of the book - though I don't have my copy with me to confirm, so I might be misremembering exactly what he says). But anyway - you and anyone else of course are free to enjoy Hofstadter's explanations of Godel's incompleteness theorem - maybe you even think that it is the best/most interesting/most fun/most insightful explanation. I just mean to say that Hofstadter isn't writing this book primarily to explain technical concepts - his explanations are a means to an end. So someone who struggles to get through this book shouldn't feel bad - its main goal was never to be a "must-read for programmers" anyway.
- trgn 3y ago
  100% The Godel proof chapter feels like the apotheosis of the book. The rest almost feels tacked on, e.g. the whole dna-computing ... , even the "strange loops" part, which I would not think is the main crux of the book.

dmazzoni 3y ago

It sounds like you're making a distinction between the plot and the theme. I'd argue the plot is entirely about Godel's incompleteness theorem. It's not just "mentioned in passing", the entire book is centered around a series of increasingly complex explanations that culminate in explaining the actual theorem itself. But just like a good novel is way, way more than just the plot, GEB is way more than just the Godel incompleteness theorem. Personally I didn't really find any other thesis or theme that compelling. However, I absolutely loved the clever ways in which he illustrated each concept. Others may have appreciated other aspects of it, and that's great too. Many people can enjoy the book for different reasons.

knightoffaith 3y ago
I shouldn't have said "mentioned" to insinuate "mentioned in passing", you are right. But no, though it plays a central role in his argument, GEB is not about Godel's incompleteness theorem (I believe Hofstadter even says as much in the preface, and he laments that readers didn't get the overall point of the book - though I don't have my copy with me to confirm, so I might be misremembering exactly what he says). But anyway - you and anyone else of course are free to enjoy Hofstadter's explanations of Godel's incompleteness theorem - maybe you even think that it is the best/most interesting/most fun/most insightful explanation. I just mean to say that Hofstadter isn't writing this book primarily to explain technical concepts - his explanations are a means to an end. So someone who struggles to get through this book shouldn't feel bad - its main goal was never to be a "must-read for programmers" anyway.
trgn 3y ago
100% The Godel proof chapter feels like the apotheosis of the book. The rest almost feels tacked on, e.g. the whole dna-computing ... , even the "strange loops" part, which I would not think is the main crux of the book.