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Really? I had heard that sometimes pilots would nudge them off course or shoot them down but nothing about artillery, I thought radar came along a bit too late

Really? I had heard that sometimes pilots would nudge them off course or shoot them down but nothing about artillery, I thought radar came along a bit too late to use it for targeting with regard to the V1

actionfromafar 3y ago
I thought so too, but lately I have heard and read accounts akin to a lot of what happened in late WW2 with regards to radar technology was highly classified and much didn't enter the history books. Pilots shooting and nudging definitely happened but likely other, more advanced stuff happened too. The germans had fully automatic radar controlled flak guns.
lupusreal 3y ago
> Automatic gunlaying (using, among others, the SCR-584 radar) and the proximity fuze played an important part in Operation Diver, (the British operation to counter the V1 flying bombs). Both of these had been requested by AA Command and arrived in numbers, starting in June 1944, just as the guns reached their free-firing positions on the south eastern coast of England. Seventeen per cent of all flying bombs entering the coastal 'gun belt' were destroyed by guns in the first week on the coast. This rose to 60 per cent by 23 August and 74 per cent in the last week of the month, when on one extraordinary day 82 per cent were shot down. The rate increased from one V-1 for every 2,500 shells fired to one for every hundred. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCR-584_radar#Operational_use https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCR-584_radar#Operational_use > 90mm anti-aircraft guns were normally operated in groups of four, utilizing the SCR-584 microwave computer and being controlled by the M9 Director. The SCR-584 was accurate to about 0.06 degrees (1 mil) and also provided automatic tracking. Direction and range information was sent directly to the M3 Gun Data Computer, and M9 Director, which directed and laid the guns automatically. All the crews had to do was load the guns. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M9_Gun_Director https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M9_Gun_Director
- robbiep 3y ago
  Wow. I honestly find it amazing what they accomplished back then. I spent like 6 hours reading the history of AEGIS when someone posted it here last year
a4000 3y ago
Pilots chasing down V-1s who shot at them from directly behind would risk immediately flying at high speed into the wall of shrapnel created by blowing up essentially a large powered bomb, often destroying or damaging their own aircraft in the process, which was very dangerous. To avoid this, some pilots developed the tactic of flying along side the V1 then using their wingtip against the V-1 wingtip they would then flip it over and off course disrupting the primitive autopilot system so it would then spiral out of the control and hit the ground and explode hopefully in relatively harmless field.
- fbdab103 3y ago
  Ah yes, the safer alternative of nudging your plane against the flying bomb.
- robbiep 3y ago
  yes, that's exactly what I had absorbed from somewhere
WalterBright 3y ago
"Impact" by Benjamin King and Timothy Hutton "The answer to Pile's problems of directing the guns was the American S.C.R. 584 radar, the one used on the American 90mm anti aircraft gun, which had power elevation and traverse and an automatic fuse setter. The S.C.R. 584 was a gun-laying radar and "the most successful single application of the micro-wave ten-centimeter technique to ground fighting in World War IL It could automatically track an unseen target at night or in cloud or fog, supplying range, azimuth and elevation data to a gun director." The S.C.R. 684 had a range of 90,000 yards for early warning, and as a target got within 32,000 yards the set acted as a gun layer. It had no blind spots and could detect low-flying targets like the Fi 103. Unlike the British radar sets, it was also immune to Window. However, it was a complex piece of electronic equipment and required a number of scarce materials like tantalum, molybdenum and tungsten, as well as 140 vacuum tubes which were then in short supply in the United States. The fielded version weighed several tons and cost $100,000." Impact, pg 174-175 "Aside from the redeployment, one of the reasons for the gunners' success was that new equipment had arrived. Anti-Aircraft Command received 135 of the long-awaited S.C.R. 584 radar sets and Pile was able to "borrow" an additional 165. Adapting these to the static British 3.7-inch gun required 200 modifications to the gun. Along with the radar sets came proximity fuses and 20 American batteries armed with the radar-controlled 90mm gun." Impact, pg 207 "When controlled by the S.C.R. 584 radar set, the U.S. 90mm Ml Antiaircraft Gun was the finest antiaircraft gun of World War II. During the campaign they were operated 22 hours a day with two hours a day for maintenance." Impact, pg 271
- robbiep 3y ago
  that's amazing. Thanks
  - mrguyorama 3y ago
    Near the end of the blitz, the Brits claimed they were getting one kill per 100 rounds fired. That's an insane number, possible only with VT (proximity) fuses and radar directed gunnery. The numbers from before those two advancements were closer to 100k rounds per kill
jabl 3y ago
They used both (and barrage balloons as well). The space between the ~middle of the English channel and London was divided into "belts", with one type of defense operating in each belt to prevent interference (like flak shooting down your own fighters). At first the flak guns were located near London (as that was the same flak guns that were protecting London against aircraft). It didn't work so well because it was very hard to hit a fast moving target like the V1, as crews not used to it tended to use too little lead. And even if the V1 was hit, chances were that the wreck would fall down on London anyway. So eventually the flak batteries were moved to the coast, and they got gun-laying radars and proximity fuses which dramatically improved the effectiveness of them.

actionfromafar 3y ago

I thought so too, but lately I have heard and read accounts akin to a lot of what happened in late WW2 with regards to radar technology was highly classified and much didn't enter the history books. Pilots shooting and nudging definitely happened but likely other, more advanced stuff happened too. The germans had fully automatic radar controlled flak guns.

lupusreal 3y ago

> Automatic gunlaying (using, among others, the SCR-584 radar) and the proximity fuze played an important part in Operation Diver, (the British operation to counter the V1 flying bombs). Both of these had been requested by AA Command and arrived in numbers, starting in June 1944, just as the guns reached their free-firing positions on the south eastern coast of England. Seventeen per cent of all flying bombs entering the coastal 'gun belt' were destroyed by guns in the first week on the coast. This rose to 60 per cent by 23 August and 74 per cent in the last week of the month, when on one extraordinary day 82 per cent were shot down. The rate increased from one V-1 for every 2,500 shells fired to one for every hundred. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCR-584_radar#Operational_use https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCR-584_radar#Operational_use > 90mm anti-aircraft guns were normally operated in groups of four, utilizing the SCR-584 microwave computer and being controlled by the M9 Director. The SCR-584 was accurate to about 0.06 degrees (1 mil) and also provided automatic tracking. Direction and range information was sent directly to the M3 Gun Data Computer, and M9 Director, which directed and laid the guns automatically. All the crews had to do was load the guns. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M9_Gun_Director https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M9_Gun_Director

robbiep 3y ago
Wow. I honestly find it amazing what they accomplished back then. I spent like 6 hours reading the history of AEGIS when someone posted it here last year

a4000 3y ago

Pilots chasing down V-1s who shot at them from directly behind would risk immediately flying at high speed into the wall of shrapnel created by blowing up essentially a large powered bomb, often destroying or damaging their own aircraft in the process, which was very dangerous. To avoid this, some pilots developed the tactic of flying along side the V1 then using their wingtip against the V-1 wingtip they would then flip it over and off course disrupting the primitive autopilot system so it would then spiral out of the control and hit the ground and explode hopefully in relatively harmless field.

fbdab103 3y ago
Ah yes, the safer alternative of nudging your plane against the flying bomb.
robbiep 3y ago
yes, that's exactly what I had absorbed from somewhere

WalterBright 3y ago

"Impact" by Benjamin King and Timothy Hutton "The answer to Pile's problems of directing the guns was the American S.C.R. 584 radar, the one used on the American 90mm anti aircraft gun, which had power elevation and traverse and an automatic fuse setter. The S.C.R. 584 was a gun-laying radar and "the most successful single application of the micro-wave ten-centimeter technique to ground fighting in World War IL It could automatically track an unseen target at night or in cloud or fog, supplying range, azimuth and elevation data to a gun director." The S.C.R. 684 had a range of 90,000 yards for early warning, and as a target got within 32,000 yards the set acted as a gun layer. It had no blind spots and could detect low-flying targets like the Fi 103. Unlike the British radar sets, it was also immune to Window. However, it was a complex piece of electronic equipment and required a number of scarce materials like tantalum, molybdenum and tungsten, as well as 140 vacuum tubes which were then in short supply in the United States. The fielded version weighed several tons and cost $100,000." Impact, pg 174-175 "Aside from the redeployment, one of the reasons for the gunners' success was that new equipment had arrived. Anti-Aircraft Command received 135 of the long-awaited S.C.R. 584 radar sets and Pile was able to "borrow" an additional 165. Adapting these to the static British 3.7-inch gun required 200 modifications to the gun. Along with the radar sets came proximity fuses and 20 American batteries armed with the radar-controlled 90mm gun." Impact, pg 207 "When controlled by the S.C.R. 584 radar set, the U.S. 90mm Ml Antiaircraft Gun was the finest antiaircraft gun of World War II. During the campaign they were operated 22 hours a day with two hours a day for maintenance." Impact, pg 271

robbiep 3y ago
that's amazing. Thanks
- mrguyorama 3y ago
  Near the end of the blitz, the Brits claimed they were getting one kill per 100 rounds fired. That's an insane number, possible only with VT (proximity) fuses and radar directed gunnery. The numbers from before those two advancements were closer to 100k rounds per kill

jabl 3y ago

They used both (and barrage balloons as well). The space between the ~middle of the English channel and London was divided into "belts", with one type of defense operating in each belt to prevent interference (like flak shooting down your own fighters). At first the flak guns were located near London (as that was the same flak guns that were protecting London against aircraft). It didn't work so well because it was very hard to hit a fast moving target like the V1, as crews not used to it tended to use too little lead. And even if the V1 was hit, chances were that the wreck would fall down on London anyway. So eventually the flak batteries were moved to the coast, and they got gun-laying radars and proximity fuses which dramatically improved the effectiveness of them.