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Do you really need an extra bedroom? Do you really need a car? Do you really need that extra pair of socks? Do you really need that coca-cola? Of course not. Pe

Do you really need an extra bedroom? Do you really need a car? Do you really need that extra pair of socks? Do you really need that coca-cola? Of course not. People obviously want it. Quite the slippery slope you're walking.

grecy 3y ago
We are at a point in society where we can't simply keep doing what those before us did. We are killing the planet, and every plant and animal on it, including ourselves. Yes, life is about to get less convenient and we have to give up some luxuries. It doesn't matter if you don't like it, it a fact.
- chasebank 3y ago
  "We are at a point in society where we can't simply keep doing what those before us did." Sure we can. And we will. The choices of most of the world's population surely disagrees with this. "Yes, life is about to get less convenient and we have to give up some luxuries." I don't think that's the case, but we will see. For the record, ideologically, I'm on your side. Realistically, I just don't see a world where the majority of people change. The stop using the plastic straw argument applies to people who don't like straws. Tell the same anti-straw folks to stop traveling, stop having pets, no more children. You see where this goes - It just doesn't work.
  - grecy 3y ago
    There are laws against plastic straws and plastic bags. There are laws against chemicals that are known to cause environmental harm. There are laws against vehicles that pollute too much. Soon there will be laws against cars vehicles that pollute at all. All we have to do is make laws, and more and more of them are coming. Again, it doesn't matter what an individual wants.
    - JackSlateur 3y ago
      Your trust in laws is fascinating For humans, laws and rules are meant to be overstepped : this is how our species got so far : by considering rules, laws and traditions, and say "well, whatever, I will try it my way and see how it goes"
      - grecy 3y ago
        And how is that working out? In recent months dozens of shops got multi-million dollar fines from the EPA for "deleting " diesel emission equipment. Now it's unheard of in the US. It works.
- Lanolderen 3y ago
  We can though. There's a lot of fearmongering but the reality is climate change won't kill us for longer than we'll live. There's also a lot of gradient in the effect of environmental laws. As an example my family still has tons of plastic bags that get reused over and over again until they become unusable or land as a trash bag. I don't know the math of it all but considering we buy plastic trash bags anyway we might as well get them from shopping instead of buying them separately. I have no idea what the global impact has been on plastic bag production but it could be interesting to see, assuming such a statistic exists.
  - grecy 3y ago
    > the reality is climate change won't kill us for longer than we'll live. That depends heavily on where you live. 3.6 billion people live in areas that are at a very high risk from climate change. https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/climate-change-and-health https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/climate-cha... > There's a lot of fearmongering If you have better credentials than the WHO and leading climatologists around the world then I'd love to hear about them.
  - willsmith72 3y ago
    > There's a lot of fearmongering but the reality is climate change won't kill us for longer than we'll live. I really don't like this take when I see it. Do you care about just the next 50 years, or the next hundreds+? Do you have children/grandchildren? Do you care about an increase in the quantity and impact of natural disasters? The resulting increase in death, suffering, insurance premiums? What about more unpleasantly hot days? Less snow on the ski slopes? All of that stuff is important to me, even though it almost certainly won't kill me personally. It's just such a no-brainer that the environment and climate is something to cherish and protect. Even if you're generally pro-environment, referring to environment-protection measures as fearmongering only makes it harder to enact them and increase their scale.
    - Lanolderen 3y ago
      I don't mind environmentalism and I also see why people prefer to portray a picture of "you will die" instead of "your grand grand grand kids will die" but I also personally dislike it when people skew the picture to push their agenda, even if it is good and pushed entirely out of their love and care for others. It might be due to me being surrounded by automotive enthusiasts but the general view of recent environmental laws in my circles is that they exist mostly to motivate spending and move some local pollution somewhere else. It's kind of the combination of nonsensical laws and short term effect exaggeration that offends people, making them stubborn/resistant to accepting things that actually make sense. It's probably offset by people who get a sense of urgency out of it but I withhold my right to dislike it.
- the_doctah 3y ago
  Generalizations and platitudes, you can't even argue with this pie in the sky nonsense.
latentcall 3y ago
Are you comparing a car with a straw? Really? Trust me you will be perfectly fine without a straw! Try it sometime.
- chasebank 3y ago
  If everything has an inherent carbon footprint, ie. harmful to the environment, then yes, we can compare a straw to a car. Have you ever gone on a vacation? I'd wager that flight you took is 10000x worse for the environment than whatever reduction in your lifetime straws. Trust me you will be perfectly fine without going on vacation!
  - latentcall 3y ago
    I really underestimated how passionate people are about straws. Do you have a blog per chance where you compare different straws and their manufacturers? Would you rate them on thickness, quality of plastic, how quickly liquid travels from beverage to mouth? Do you prefer straws wrapped in plastic or not? Can you describe the different subtle mouth feels?
    - prepend 3y ago
      I’m not passionate about straws. I’m just passionate about stupidity and critical thinking. It seems odd to me that someone would question whether straws are essential, but have no problem with vacations. I also am offended when people expressing any interest are deflected into “why don’t care about this so much?” It’s not important how passionate GP is about straws. Address the content of their message, not whether they are super interested in a topic or not.
    - chasebank 3y ago
      I'm not sure where I wrote I like straws. It's more of a "I don't like the logic regarding straw bans".
    - the_doctah 3y ago
      >Can you describe the different subtle mouth feels? Yes, paper feels way worse to drink out of, objectively.
Ekaros 3y ago
Isn't that private bedroom quite a big luxury, and many groups perfectly manage to survive living multiple persons per room... So why not force everyone to give up their private bedrooms?
gregable 3y ago
It slips both ways though. I suspect banning incandescent bulbs is probably a good change, even though there were people who obviously wanted them.

grecy 3y ago

We are at a point in society where we can't simply keep doing what those before us did. We are killing the planet, and every plant and animal on it, including ourselves. Yes, life is about to get less convenient and we have to give up some luxuries. It doesn't matter if you don't like it, it a fact.

chasebank 3y ago
"We are at a point in society where we can't simply keep doing what those before us did." Sure we can. And we will. The choices of most of the world's population surely disagrees with this. "Yes, life is about to get less convenient and we have to give up some luxuries." I don't think that's the case, but we will see. For the record, ideologically, I'm on your side. Realistically, I just don't see a world where the majority of people change. The stop using the plastic straw argument applies to people who don't like straws. Tell the same anti-straw folks to stop traveling, stop having pets, no more children. You see where this goes - It just doesn't work.
- grecy 3y ago
  There are laws against plastic straws and plastic bags. There are laws against chemicals that are known to cause environmental harm. There are laws against vehicles that pollute too much. Soon there will be laws against cars vehicles that pollute at all. All we have to do is make laws, and more and more of them are coming. Again, it doesn't matter what an individual wants.
  - JackSlateur 3y ago
    Your trust in laws is fascinating For humans, laws and rules are meant to be overstepped : this is how our species got so far : by considering rules, laws and traditions, and say "well, whatever, I will try it my way and see how it goes"
    - grecy 3y ago
      And how is that working out? In recent months dozens of shops got multi-million dollar fines from the EPA for "deleting " diesel emission equipment. Now it's unheard of in the US. It works.
Lanolderen 3y ago
We can though. There's a lot of fearmongering but the reality is climate change won't kill us for longer than we'll live. There's also a lot of gradient in the effect of environmental laws. As an example my family still has tons of plastic bags that get reused over and over again until they become unusable or land as a trash bag. I don't know the math of it all but considering we buy plastic trash bags anyway we might as well get them from shopping instead of buying them separately. I have no idea what the global impact has been on plastic bag production but it could be interesting to see, assuming such a statistic exists.
- grecy 3y ago
  > the reality is climate change won't kill us for longer than we'll live. That depends heavily on where you live. 3.6 billion people live in areas that are at a very high risk from climate change. https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/climate-change-and-health https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/climate-cha... > There's a lot of fearmongering If you have better credentials than the WHO and leading climatologists around the world then I'd love to hear about them.
- willsmith72 3y ago
  > There's a lot of fearmongering but the reality is climate change won't kill us for longer than we'll live. I really don't like this take when I see it. Do you care about just the next 50 years, or the next hundreds+? Do you have children/grandchildren? Do you care about an increase in the quantity and impact of natural disasters? The resulting increase in death, suffering, insurance premiums? What about more unpleasantly hot days? Less snow on the ski slopes? All of that stuff is important to me, even though it almost certainly won't kill me personally. It's just such a no-brainer that the environment and climate is something to cherish and protect. Even if you're generally pro-environment, referring to environment-protection measures as fearmongering only makes it harder to enact them and increase their scale.
  - Lanolderen 3y ago
    I don't mind environmentalism and I also see why people prefer to portray a picture of "you will die" instead of "your grand grand grand kids will die" but I also personally dislike it when people skew the picture to push their agenda, even if it is good and pushed entirely out of their love and care for others. It might be due to me being surrounded by automotive enthusiasts but the general view of recent environmental laws in my circles is that they exist mostly to motivate spending and move some local pollution somewhere else. It's kind of the combination of nonsensical laws and short term effect exaggeration that offends people, making them stubborn/resistant to accepting things that actually make sense. It's probably offset by people who get a sense of urgency out of it but I withhold my right to dislike it.
the_doctah 3y ago
Generalizations and platitudes, you can't even argue with this pie in the sky nonsense.

latentcall 3y ago

Are you comparing a car with a straw? Really? Trust me you will be perfectly fine without a straw! Try it sometime.

chasebank 3y ago
If everything has an inherent carbon footprint, ie. harmful to the environment, then yes, we can compare a straw to a car. Have you ever gone on a vacation? I'd wager that flight you took is 10000x worse for the environment than whatever reduction in your lifetime straws. Trust me you will be perfectly fine without going on vacation!
- latentcall 3y ago
  I really underestimated how passionate people are about straws. Do you have a blog per chance where you compare different straws and their manufacturers? Would you rate them on thickness, quality of plastic, how quickly liquid travels from beverage to mouth? Do you prefer straws wrapped in plastic or not? Can you describe the different subtle mouth feels?
  - prepend 3y ago
    I’m not passionate about straws. I’m just passionate about stupidity and critical thinking. It seems odd to me that someone would question whether straws are essential, but have no problem with vacations. I also am offended when people expressing any interest are deflected into “why don’t care about this so much?” It’s not important how passionate GP is about straws. Address the content of their message, not whether they are super interested in a topic or not.
  - chasebank 3y ago
    I'm not sure where I wrote I like straws. It's more of a "I don't like the logic regarding straw bans".
  - the_doctah 3y ago
    >Can you describe the different subtle mouth feels? Yes, paper feels way worse to drink out of, objectively.

Ekaros 3y ago

Isn't that private bedroom quite a big luxury, and many groups perfectly manage to survive living multiple persons per room... So why not force everyone to give up their private bedrooms?

gregable 3y ago

It slips both ways though. I suspect banning incandescent bulbs is probably a good change, even though there were people who obviously wanted them.