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Also these environmental laws come from a place of non-rigorous fanciful thinking, ie. the paper straw push was pushed by some hollywood celebrity and never too

Also these environmental laws come from a place of non-rigorous fanciful thinking, ie. the paper straw push was pushed by some hollywood celebrity and never took into account that paper straws are loaded with forever chemicals, and are useless with shakes or drinks that take a long time to finish. The gas stove bans are beyond absurd, the claims are that they cause asthma and lung problems but I bought a few air quality meters and ran my gas stove at full blast with no discernible degradation registered on these meters. In addition going full electric leads to a non-redundancy in heating and cooling which pushes a greater strain on the electric grid and if said grid fails(see california) people are completly without heat or cooling. Lastly they push enormous costs onto individuals for miniscule gains.

speakeron 3y ago
I think the problem with gas stoves is the nitrogen dioxide they produce. Do you have a meter for that?
- prepend 3y ago
  Yes, quite clearly it’s easy to measure nitrogen dioxide as well. A well ventilated stove has no problem with the nitrogen dioxide produced. So it’s an example of illogic to push for banning gas stoves rather than incentivizing proper ventilation.
pwnna 3y ago
Comparing gas vs electric seems incorrect. Should be comparing with induction instead. It is way more energy efficient (altho not necessarily more cost efficient). It produces no combustion byproduct like gas (which your air quality meter may or may not be able to detect), and it is way faster and gives you better control. It also is safer without flames or leaks, and less likely to burn you. It is the way to cook in 2024 imo.
thexumaker 3y ago
You mean Texas lol. 30 years in SF and there’s been a couple blackouts during the summer for a n hour or 2.
Plasmoid 3y ago
The idea behind the gas stove ban, is that it's supposed to be a gas appliance ban. Most of a house's gas consumption is heating and hot water, but people will keep gas because of the stove. Gas itself has a lot of problems. Ignoring the safety concerns (oof!), the micro-leaks from gas pipelines is a major source of greenhouse gases. But we can't clean up all the pipes if everyone is still using gas stoves.
- peteradio 3y ago
  So its subversive. Nice!
- kwhitefoot 3y ago
  > the safety concerns I know a lot of people worry about gas, my grandmother wouldn't have it in the house. But is there any solid evidence that it is as dangerous as people think it is? I have been cooking with gas for all my adult life and I'm 68 with no problems whatsoever. And until I left the UK in 1986 we used gas fired central heating and hot water, again with no problems. I don't know anyone personally who has ever had a safety problem with a gas installation.
  - lmm 3y ago
    It only takes one Ronan Point to outweigh a great many people who never had a safety problem with a gas installation. The UK imposed a strict inspection and regulation regime (to the point that a common "life pro tip" is: if you're living in rented accommodation with gas and haven't received a gas safety certificate, never mention it to your landlord until you move out, that way you're always entitled to 100% of your deposit back and can avoid having to argue over wear and tear etc.) which has its own costs.
    - seabass-labrax 3y ago
      > ...a common "life pro tip" is: if you're living in rented accommodation with gas and haven't received a gas safety certificate, never mention it to your landlord until you move out, that way you're always entitled to 100% of your deposit back... It's only a 'life pro tip' if you get to keep it. Keep your life, that is.
twothamendment 3y ago
If you ran a gas stove and couldn't measure anything, I really question your meters or method - it maybe your house is build like a cheese grater. My meter was off the charts when turning on the gas range or oven. I didn't get a meter until after a trip to the in-laws when my wife noticed that cooking at their house didn't make her sick, but as soon as we were back home it was an issue. We swapped the gas for induction and love it - especially the part where she isn't getting sick from using it. Our house is built very tight. The air quality meter also got me to put in an air exchanger. It was great to have numbers before and after these changes. We had gas because I've always liked cooking on it and it works when the power is out. It was hard to give that up. Now we use a camp stove when the power is out. I think a ban is too strong. It seems like building codes requiring a range hood that actually works could be enough.
- lazide 3y ago
  If you have a vent that works or open a nearby window they aren’t an issue.
uulu 3y ago
> ... going full electric leads to a non-redundancy in heating and cooling which pushes a greater strain on the electric grid ... What else than electricity if used for cooling? Genuine question.
- gruturo 3y ago
  Gas, or any heat source really. Yeah I'm serious - for cooling. A certain Albert Einstein invented it with one of his students, a certain Leo Szilard, and patented it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein_refrigerator https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein_refrigerator
  - uulu 3y ago
    Yes, you are right, this apparatus is invented. ... and banning it will "push a greater strain on the electric grid" (to use GP words) with the current level of adoption. :-) Really?
    - gruturo 3y ago
      No need to ban this kind of fridge - it's already uneconomical compared to electric ones - people won't suddenly go buy one unless they need it to run where electricity isn't available. It's the type installed in most RVs for example, makes sense there.
cyberax 3y ago
> The gas stove bans are beyond absurd, the claims are that they cause asthma and lung problems but I bought a few air quality meters and ran my gas stove at full blast with no discernible degradation registered on these meters. Have you checked for formaldehyde? I did, and a stove results in a real increase in its content.
mr_toad 3y ago
> useless with shakes or drinks that take a long time to finish I wonder how the ancients drank liquids, before the invention of the straw.
- inglor_cz 3y ago
  The straw is surprisingly old. There is an almost 5000 year old wax seal from Ur, depicting people drinking beer using long straws. https://www.chaldeannews.com/features-1/2019/12/24/history-of-merchants-beer-in-ancient-mesopotamia https://www.chaldeannews.com/features-1/2019/12/24/history-o... Of course, back then, their main concern was not to disturb whatever settled on the bottom of the vessel.

speakeron 3y ago

I think the problem with gas stoves is the nitrogen dioxide they produce. Do you have a meter for that?

prepend 3y ago
Yes, quite clearly it’s easy to measure nitrogen dioxide as well. A well ventilated stove has no problem with the nitrogen dioxide produced. So it’s an example of illogic to push for banning gas stoves rather than incentivizing proper ventilation.

pwnna 3y ago

Comparing gas vs electric seems incorrect. Should be comparing with induction instead. It is way more energy efficient (altho not necessarily more cost efficient). It produces no combustion byproduct like gas (which your air quality meter may or may not be able to detect), and it is way faster and gives you better control. It also is safer without flames or leaks, and less likely to burn you. It is the way to cook in 2024 imo.

thexumaker 3y ago

You mean Texas lol. 30 years in SF and there’s been a couple blackouts during the summer for a n hour or 2.

Plasmoid 3y ago

The idea behind the gas stove ban, is that it's supposed to be a gas appliance ban. Most of a house's gas consumption is heating and hot water, but people will keep gas because of the stove. Gas itself has a lot of problems. Ignoring the safety concerns (oof!), the micro-leaks from gas pipelines is a major source of greenhouse gases. But we can't clean up all the pipes if everyone is still using gas stoves.

peteradio 3y ago
So its subversive. Nice!
kwhitefoot 3y ago
> the safety concerns I know a lot of people worry about gas, my grandmother wouldn't have it in the house. But is there any solid evidence that it is as dangerous as people think it is? I have been cooking with gas for all my adult life and I'm 68 with no problems whatsoever. And until I left the UK in 1986 we used gas fired central heating and hot water, again with no problems. I don't know anyone personally who has ever had a safety problem with a gas installation.
- lmm 3y ago
  It only takes one Ronan Point to outweigh a great many people who never had a safety problem with a gas installation. The UK imposed a strict inspection and regulation regime (to the point that a common "life pro tip" is: if you're living in rented accommodation with gas and haven't received a gas safety certificate, never mention it to your landlord until you move out, that way you're always entitled to 100% of your deposit back and can avoid having to argue over wear and tear etc.) which has its own costs.
  - seabass-labrax 3y ago
    > ...a common "life pro tip" is: if you're living in rented accommodation with gas and haven't received a gas safety certificate, never mention it to your landlord until you move out, that way you're always entitled to 100% of your deposit back... It's only a 'life pro tip' if you get to keep it. Keep your life, that is.

twothamendment 3y ago

If you ran a gas stove and couldn't measure anything, I really question your meters or method - it maybe your house is build like a cheese grater. My meter was off the charts when turning on the gas range or oven. I didn't get a meter until after a trip to the in-laws when my wife noticed that cooking at their house didn't make her sick, but as soon as we were back home it was an issue. We swapped the gas for induction and love it - especially the part where she isn't getting sick from using it. Our house is built very tight. The air quality meter also got me to put in an air exchanger. It was great to have numbers before and after these changes. We had gas because I've always liked cooking on it and it works when the power is out. It was hard to give that up. Now we use a camp stove when the power is out. I think a ban is too strong. It seems like building codes requiring a range hood that actually works could be enough.

lazide 3y ago
If you have a vent that works or open a nearby window they aren’t an issue.

uulu 3y ago

> ... going full electric leads to a non-redundancy in heating and cooling which pushes a greater strain on the electric grid ... What else than electricity if used for cooling? Genuine question.

gruturo 3y ago
Gas, or any heat source really. Yeah I'm serious - for cooling. A certain Albert Einstein invented it with one of his students, a certain Leo Szilard, and patented it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein_refrigerator https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein_refrigerator
- uulu 3y ago
  Yes, you are right, this apparatus is invented. ... and banning it will "push a greater strain on the electric grid" (to use GP words) with the current level of adoption. :-) Really?
  - gruturo 3y ago
    No need to ban this kind of fridge - it's already uneconomical compared to electric ones - people won't suddenly go buy one unless they need it to run where electricity isn't available. It's the type installed in most RVs for example, makes sense there.

cyberax 3y ago

> The gas stove bans are beyond absurd, the claims are that they cause asthma and lung problems but I bought a few air quality meters and ran my gas stove at full blast with no discernible degradation registered on these meters. Have you checked for formaldehyde? I did, and a stove results in a real increase in its content.

mr_toad 3y ago

> useless with shakes or drinks that take a long time to finish I wonder how the ancients drank liquids, before the invention of the straw.

inglor_cz 3y ago
The straw is surprisingly old. There is an almost 5000 year old wax seal from Ur, depicting people drinking beer using long straws. https://www.chaldeannews.com/features-1/2019/12/24/history-of-merchants-beer-in-ancient-mesopotamia https://www.chaldeannews.com/features-1/2019/12/24/history-o... Of course, back then, their main concern was not to disturb whatever settled on the bottom of the vessel.