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Do people really need straws so much they get annoyed if they are made of a different material? You can just not use a straw. Or if it’s life or death you have

Do people really need straws so much they get annoyed if they are made of a different material? You can just not use a straw. Or if it’s life or death you have one, purchase a collapsible metal straw and bring it with you.

__salt 3y ago
> You can just not use a straw. This thought process is the problem. Solutions must benefit all parties. Telling one party to go without and deal with it creates resentment.
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  >Solutions must benefit all parties. but solutions never benefit all parties. Laws tend to tell some group what not to do, so most laws will inconvinience someone. You just need to figure out who the law and targeting (and REALLY targeting, not just what PR says) and then follow the money from there.
  - __salt 3y ago
    Less energy would be used by creating straws that are both convenient and good for the environment, like agave fiber straws. Solutions can benefit all parties in any context (and the best ones do), but environmental protection is unique because the solution must benefit all parties. This is because, while some will sacrifice for the sake of the world, some will not. Convenience compels the lazy to change. No amount of coercion, or threat of force will change that.
- p1mrx 3y ago
  Perhaps it would be more useful to unban plastic straws, and then ban unsolicited straws. It's rather tedious to take a straw out of a drink, dry it off, and find somewhere to put it.
  - latentcall 3y ago
    I can agree with this. Straws upon request makes more sense.
  - Wowfunhappy 3y ago
    This is, in fact, how I think we should have handled plastic bags. The plastic bags themselves are fine. But the customer should have to actually request one. I can't tell you how many times I bought one small item I intended to carry out of the store with me, and the cashier just automatically put it in a plastic bag. "Oh, I don't need a bag," I'd say. The cashier would then proceed to take the item out of the bag, and throw the bag away. (No animosity intended towards the cashiers, who have difficult jobs. But we should have a better process.)
- latentcall 3y ago
  Sure, but not forever. My city banned plastic bags in grocery stores and I was annoyed and resentful because I used those when I cleaned out my cats litter box. However I got over it.
chasebank 3y ago
Do you really need an extra bedroom? Do you really need a car? Do you really need that extra pair of socks? Do you really need that coca-cola? Of course not. People obviously want it. Quite the slippery slope you're walking.
- grecy 3y ago
  We are at a point in society where we can't simply keep doing what those before us did. We are killing the planet, and every plant and animal on it, including ourselves. Yes, life is about to get less convenient and we have to give up some luxuries. It doesn't matter if you don't like it, it a fact.
  - chasebank 3y ago
    "We are at a point in society where we can't simply keep doing what those before us did." Sure we can. And we will. The choices of most of the world's population surely disagrees with this. "Yes, life is about to get less convenient and we have to give up some luxuries." I don't think that's the case, but we will see. For the record, ideologically, I'm on your side. Realistically, I just don't see a world where the majority of people change. The stop using the plastic straw argument applies to people who don't like straws. Tell the same anti-straw folks to stop traveling, stop having pets, no more children. You see where this goes - It just doesn't work.
    - grecy 3y ago
      There are laws against plastic straws and plastic bags. There are laws against chemicals that are known to cause environmental harm. There are laws against vehicles that pollute too much. Soon there will be laws against cars vehicles that pollute at all. All we have to do is make laws, and more and more of them are coming. Again, it doesn't matter what an individual wants.
      - JackSlateur 3y ago
        Your trust in laws is fascinating For humans, laws and rules are meant to be overstepped : this is how our species got so far : by considering rules, laws and traditions, and say "well, whatever, I will try it my way and see how it goes"
whartung 3y ago
I pretty much loathe paper straws. Their texture is nails on chalkboard to me. I hate that they get soggy. I hate that they collapse in anything thick like a milkshake or smoothie. I will more likely go without than use a paper (even the modern paper) straws. And I don’t like going without. I like straws. I like their utility. I like the way they work in the car. They let me rate limit the beverage flow rather than something else, such as the ice dam at edge of the cup. I’m also a big fan of ice. The closest solution I’ve found are lids with small openings. Starbucks coffee lids are good examples, but they’re also “strawless” cup lids with a small lid over a hole. They’re not a replacement for straws, but they’re not awful like paper straws are. Some leak though. Puts them lower on the fun scale. Not a big fan of the stainless steel ones either to be honest.
msie 3y ago
I am forever haunted by the death of a woman by a metal straw where it impaled her in the head when she accidentally fell in her home.
- scoofy 3y ago
  As soon as I saw people were using metal straws as a replacement for plastic straws, I thought... that is a terrible, dumb idea. Yet people still buy them. It's pretty nuts. There are now perfectly functional composable straws, but people still need to compost them.
- the_doctah 3y ago
  Impaled through the eye, my god.
- PlunderBunny 3y ago
  The odds of something like that happening are so astronomically low that you’re better off spending your energy looking up for falling pianos.
- billfor 3y ago
  Or the guy that died of a rare bacterial infection that he got from using his dirty metal straw he never cleaned /s
- opan 3y ago
  There are also silicone and glass straws. Plus a metal straw with a bend in it may be safer than a straight one. I was expecting someone else to have mentioned silicone straws already, I'd heard of them before in other straw discussions. Had to do a search and make sure they really existed.
prepend 3y ago
Do people really need the things they drink with straws? There’s two ways I generally think of this: 1) who knows what is actually essential. I can’t judge what others truly need and don’t know of an objective board who can. Is art necessary? Is coke necessary? Are luxury vehicles necessary? 2) people choose what’s needed by buying them and prioritizing their money toward it. So by existing and being purchased that’s proof enough of necessity. I’m sure as hell not carrying and keeping clean a collapsible metal straw on the off chance that I’ll want to drink a drink one day. It seems like the mental stress of that would outweigh the negative impact of a thousand plastic straws (not to mention the energy spent to create the collapsible metal straw in the first place). It’s important to keep in mind all the tradeoffs and not to create negative overall effects from the aim of improving only environmental effects.
thrownv7032g 3y ago
The paper straws are awful products. They taste like paper and disintegrate quickly even though they are still covered in plastic. Wood utensils in comparison were an adjustment but they work fine. I have been avoiding lids and straws for two decades now, because they are wasteful, but when I have need of a straw and lid it's nice if they work.
RajT88 3y ago
Paper straws are an improvement. Just not perfect. I cannot speak to cost, but wax, paper/cardboard performs well enough for just about any food related purpose. Not suitable for shakes? Make them thicker.
- the_doctah 3y ago
  I've never met a single person who likes using a paper straw over a plastic one. They feel weird in your mouth, they get soggy, and they fall apart. I fail to see how adding more paper material would fix the issue.
  - RajT88 3y ago
    Plastic straws perform better than your average paper straw, no argument there. I think the talking point is a lot of people do not care that much and paper straws are good enough. Wax would help way more for most use cases, but the added material would help for thicker mediums. Waxed paper straws are a thing and are almost as good as plastic straws. I am not sure why they are not more common. Pretty rare actually.
    - MisterBastahrd 3y ago
      The reason we use plastic straws is because we've ALREADY used paper straws and consumers preferred the plastic ones. Especially now that all of our drink portion sizes are gigantic and straws tend to sit in drinks for hours.
      - RajT88 3y ago
        That and they are cheaper to produce. Now we're learning more and more that using plastic for everything is not just bad for the environment, but also bad for our health. Consumer sentiment is shifting accordingly. For the record, I'm in camp, "Don't care that much, whatever straws are fine". I'd be happy if as a society we could just get people not to litter like other developed countries manage to. I have a lot of junk which ends up in my front yard (people tossing garbage from passing cars) and my backyard (a river where all kinds of styrofoam, plastic cups, plastic bags, etc. all wash up). If all the junk was biodegradable it wouldn't hang around my yard and require me to pick it up (or I could at least toss it on the burn pile).
noqc 3y ago
If you really want to get rid of plastics, stop recycling them and start burying them.
wkat4242 3y ago
If you have sensitive teeth a straw is really needed with some drinks. And putting a collapsible one back in your pocket after it's sticky is a bit disingenious. I'd prefer focusing on better recycling than replacing by worse alternatives (eg PFAS coated paper)
- opan 3y ago
  I would suggest either rinsing it in a bathroom somewhere, and/or carrying some sort of pouch or container you can stick it in so you don't dirty your pocket. Then you could clean it at home. In a pinch you could probably pour water from your water bottle on/through it outside if you carry a water bottle already. Could also wrap it in a handkerchief if you carry anything like that.
  - wkat4242 3y ago
    I don't normally carry any of that stuff to be honest. I don't usually even wear a coat. Just my phone, keys and sometimes a wallet. I live in Spain so 80% of the year I don't use a coat. And water I would just buy when I need it :) When I go hiking I do bring those things but then I don't come across places that sell iced drinks :)
  - boring_twenties 3y ago
    That sounds like a lot more effort than just avoiding places that give you shitty paper straws instead of proper plastic ones
ryandrake 3y ago
It doesn't have to be a life-or-death issue in order to moderately annoy someone. In fact, straws are not a life-or-death issue, so it annoys people when they are treated as a life-or-death issue. And nobody has ever been annoyed into agreeing with a political view. Politicians should understand these kinds of regulations just create new opponents and entrench people already against you.
lazide 3y ago
I never use straws. Straw bans irritate me because they’re such transparent bullshit - and so many people prop it up as actually real, useful, and ‘helping’. Similar to folks pushing homeopathy as real medicine and getting folks to nod along so they can sell it to even more suckers. The whole country seems to be devolving to scam artists selling increasingly ridiculous feel good scams to everyone to boost our numbers. I consider it yet another paper cut in the ongoing erosion of rational thought and pragmatic thinking in the public sphere. Straw bans alone? Not hurting anyone too bad. The overall direction is going to get a lot of people killed though.
Geisterde 3y ago
Yes, it is annoying, and its not about the straw. Its 100% about vapid environmental policies that do nothing for the environment. -The soil quality is going to hell, is it the fault of nitrogen fertilizers? It probably doesnt help, but far worse is the over farming of corn, which is the direct result of farming subsidies that shouldnt exist. -The chemical train crash in east Palestine Ohio? Operating per EPA regs; a company that had actual liability for harm would never transport chemicals without insurance, and the insurance company would base the rate on everything you would want them too, like installed safety features, rail upkeep, and training; instead, they are off scot free because they are protected by the people who are supposed to regulate them, as is only natural. -We are decades behind in energy infastructure because of nuclear alarmism. -Flint was an inside job, the government poisoned the people there and said it was safe. -I almost forgot paper straws, which are also terrible for the environment and even worse for humans. -We always ignore the biggest polluter, the pentagon. I could go on all day. If the EPA set out a few basic guidelines like "hey, make sure people wear respirators!", "dont dump chemicals into the river!", no one would complain. Its just, that will never be the federal government of the united states.
inglor_cz 3y ago
I almost never use straws, but I know elderly people who like straws because they reduce their risk of spilling whatever they are drinking. Metal straws are sturdy, but they get uncomfortably hot or cold depending on the drink.

__salt 3y ago

> You can just not use a straw. This thought process is the problem. Solutions must benefit all parties. Telling one party to go without and deal with it creates resentment.

johnnyanmac 3y ago
>Solutions must benefit all parties. but solutions never benefit all parties. Laws tend to tell some group what not to do, so most laws will inconvinience someone. You just need to figure out who the law and targeting (and REALLY targeting, not just what PR says) and then follow the money from there.
- __salt 3y ago
  Less energy would be used by creating straws that are both convenient and good for the environment, like agave fiber straws. Solutions can benefit all parties in any context (and the best ones do), but environmental protection is unique because the solution must benefit all parties. This is because, while some will sacrifice for the sake of the world, some will not. Convenience compels the lazy to change. No amount of coercion, or threat of force will change that.
p1mrx 3y ago
Perhaps it would be more useful to unban plastic straws, and then ban unsolicited straws. It's rather tedious to take a straw out of a drink, dry it off, and find somewhere to put it.
- latentcall 3y ago
  I can agree with this. Straws upon request makes more sense.
- Wowfunhappy 3y ago
  This is, in fact, how I think we should have handled plastic bags. The plastic bags themselves are fine. But the customer should have to actually request one. I can't tell you how many times I bought one small item I intended to carry out of the store with me, and the cashier just automatically put it in a plastic bag. "Oh, I don't need a bag," I'd say. The cashier would then proceed to take the item out of the bag, and throw the bag away. (No animosity intended towards the cashiers, who have difficult jobs. But we should have a better process.)
latentcall 3y ago
Sure, but not forever. My city banned plastic bags in grocery stores and I was annoyed and resentful because I used those when I cleaned out my cats litter box. However I got over it.

chasebank 3y ago

Do you really need an extra bedroom? Do you really need a car? Do you really need that extra pair of socks? Do you really need that coca-cola? Of course not. People obviously want it. Quite the slippery slope you're walking.

grecy 3y ago
We are at a point in society where we can't simply keep doing what those before us did. We are killing the planet, and every plant and animal on it, including ourselves. Yes, life is about to get less convenient and we have to give up some luxuries. It doesn't matter if you don't like it, it a fact.
- chasebank 3y ago
  "We are at a point in society where we can't simply keep doing what those before us did." Sure we can. And we will. The choices of most of the world's population surely disagrees with this. "Yes, life is about to get less convenient and we have to give up some luxuries." I don't think that's the case, but we will see. For the record, ideologically, I'm on your side. Realistically, I just don't see a world where the majority of people change. The stop using the plastic straw argument applies to people who don't like straws. Tell the same anti-straw folks to stop traveling, stop having pets, no more children. You see where this goes - It just doesn't work.
  - grecy 3y ago
    There are laws against plastic straws and plastic bags. There are laws against chemicals that are known to cause environmental harm. There are laws against vehicles that pollute too much. Soon there will be laws against cars vehicles that pollute at all. All we have to do is make laws, and more and more of them are coming. Again, it doesn't matter what an individual wants.
    - JackSlateur 3y ago
      Your trust in laws is fascinating For humans, laws and rules are meant to be overstepped : this is how our species got so far : by considering rules, laws and traditions, and say "well, whatever, I will try it my way and see how it goes"

whartung 3y ago

I pretty much loathe paper straws. Their texture is nails on chalkboard to me. I hate that they get soggy. I hate that they collapse in anything thick like a milkshake or smoothie. I will more likely go without than use a paper (even the modern paper) straws. And I don’t like going without. I like straws. I like their utility. I like the way they work in the car. They let me rate limit the beverage flow rather than something else, such as the ice dam at edge of the cup. I’m also a big fan of ice. The closest solution I’ve found are lids with small openings. Starbucks coffee lids are good examples, but they’re also “strawless” cup lids with a small lid over a hole. They’re not a replacement for straws, but they’re not awful like paper straws are. Some leak though. Puts them lower on the fun scale. Not a big fan of the stainless steel ones either to be honest.

msie 3y ago

I am forever haunted by the death of a woman by a metal straw where it impaled her in the head when she accidentally fell in her home.

scoofy 3y ago
As soon as I saw people were using metal straws as a replacement for plastic straws, I thought... that is a terrible, dumb idea. Yet people still buy them. It's pretty nuts. There are now perfectly functional composable straws, but people still need to compost them.
the_doctah 3y ago
Impaled through the eye, my god.
PlunderBunny 3y ago
The odds of something like that happening are so astronomically low that you’re better off spending your energy looking up for falling pianos.
billfor 3y ago
Or the guy that died of a rare bacterial infection that he got from using his dirty metal straw he never cleaned /s
opan 3y ago
There are also silicone and glass straws. Plus a metal straw with a bend in it may be safer than a straight one. I was expecting someone else to have mentioned silicone straws already, I'd heard of them before in other straw discussions. Had to do a search and make sure they really existed.

prepend 3y ago

Do people really need the things they drink with straws? There’s two ways I generally think of this: 1) who knows what is actually essential. I can’t judge what others truly need and don’t know of an objective board who can. Is art necessary? Is coke necessary? Are luxury vehicles necessary? 2) people choose what’s needed by buying them and prioritizing their money toward it. So by existing and being purchased that’s proof enough of necessity. I’m sure as hell not carrying and keeping clean a collapsible metal straw on the off chance that I’ll want to drink a drink one day. It seems like the mental stress of that would outweigh the negative impact of a thousand plastic straws (not to mention the energy spent to create the collapsible metal straw in the first place). It’s important to keep in mind all the tradeoffs and not to create negative overall effects from the aim of improving only environmental effects.

thrownv7032g 3y ago

The paper straws are awful products. They taste like paper and disintegrate quickly even though they are still covered in plastic. Wood utensils in comparison were an adjustment but they work fine. I have been avoiding lids and straws for two decades now, because they are wasteful, but when I have need of a straw and lid it's nice if they work.

RajT88 3y ago

Paper straws are an improvement. Just not perfect. I cannot speak to cost, but wax, paper/cardboard performs well enough for just about any food related purpose. Not suitable for shakes? Make them thicker.

the_doctah 3y ago
I've never met a single person who likes using a paper straw over a plastic one. They feel weird in your mouth, they get soggy, and they fall apart. I fail to see how adding more paper material would fix the issue.
- RajT88 3y ago
  Plastic straws perform better than your average paper straw, no argument there. I think the talking point is a lot of people do not care that much and paper straws are good enough. Wax would help way more for most use cases, but the added material would help for thicker mediums. Waxed paper straws are a thing and are almost as good as plastic straws. I am not sure why they are not more common. Pretty rare actually.
  - MisterBastahrd 3y ago
    The reason we use plastic straws is because we've ALREADY used paper straws and consumers preferred the plastic ones. Especially now that all of our drink portion sizes are gigantic and straws tend to sit in drinks for hours.
    - RajT88 3y ago
      That and they are cheaper to produce. Now we're learning more and more that using plastic for everything is not just bad for the environment, but also bad for our health. Consumer sentiment is shifting accordingly. For the record, I'm in camp, "Don't care that much, whatever straws are fine". I'd be happy if as a society we could just get people not to litter like other developed countries manage to. I have a lot of junk which ends up in my front yard (people tossing garbage from passing cars) and my backyard (a river where all kinds of styrofoam, plastic cups, plastic bags, etc. all wash up). If all the junk was biodegradable it wouldn't hang around my yard and require me to pick it up (or I could at least toss it on the burn pile).

noqc 3y ago

If you really want to get rid of plastics, stop recycling them and start burying them.

wkat4242 3y ago

If you have sensitive teeth a straw is really needed with some drinks. And putting a collapsible one back in your pocket after it's sticky is a bit disingenious. I'd prefer focusing on better recycling than replacing by worse alternatives (eg PFAS coated paper)

opan 3y ago
I would suggest either rinsing it in a bathroom somewhere, and/or carrying some sort of pouch or container you can stick it in so you don't dirty your pocket. Then you could clean it at home. In a pinch you could probably pour water from your water bottle on/through it outside if you carry a water bottle already. Could also wrap it in a handkerchief if you carry anything like that.
- wkat4242 3y ago
  I don't normally carry any of that stuff to be honest. I don't usually even wear a coat. Just my phone, keys and sometimes a wallet. I live in Spain so 80% of the year I don't use a coat. And water I would just buy when I need it :) When I go hiking I do bring those things but then I don't come across places that sell iced drinks :)
- boring_twenties 3y ago
  That sounds like a lot more effort than just avoiding places that give you shitty paper straws instead of proper plastic ones

ryandrake 3y ago

It doesn't have to be a life-or-death issue in order to moderately annoy someone. In fact, straws are not a life-or-death issue, so it annoys people when they are treated as a life-or-death issue. And nobody has ever been annoyed into agreeing with a political view. Politicians should understand these kinds of regulations just create new opponents and entrench people already against you.

lazide 3y ago

I never use straws. Straw bans irritate me because they’re such transparent bullshit - and so many people prop it up as actually real, useful, and ‘helping’. Similar to folks pushing homeopathy as real medicine and getting folks to nod along so they can sell it to even more suckers. The whole country seems to be devolving to scam artists selling increasingly ridiculous feel good scams to everyone to boost our numbers. I consider it yet another paper cut in the ongoing erosion of rational thought and pragmatic thinking in the public sphere. Straw bans alone? Not hurting anyone too bad. The overall direction is going to get a lot of people killed though.

Geisterde 3y ago

Yes, it is annoying, and its not about the straw. Its 100% about vapid environmental policies that do nothing for the environment. -The soil quality is going to hell, is it the fault of nitrogen fertilizers? It probably doesnt help, but far worse is the over farming of corn, which is the direct result of farming subsidies that shouldnt exist. -The chemical train crash in east Palestine Ohio? Operating per EPA regs; a company that had actual liability for harm would never transport chemicals without insurance, and the insurance company would base the rate on everything you would want them too, like installed safety features, rail upkeep, and training; instead, they are off scot free because they are protected by the people who are supposed to regulate them, as is only natural. -We are decades behind in energy infastructure because of nuclear alarmism. -Flint was an inside job, the government poisoned the people there and said it was safe. -I almost forgot paper straws, which are also terrible for the environment and even worse for humans. -We always ignore the biggest polluter, the pentagon. I could go on all day. If the EPA set out a few basic guidelines like "hey, make sure people wear respirators!", "dont dump chemicals into the river!", no one would complain. Its just, that will never be the federal government of the united states.

inglor_cz 3y ago

I almost never use straws, but I know elderly people who like straws because they reduce their risk of spilling whatever they are drinking. Metal straws are sturdy, but they get uncomfortably hot or cold depending on the drink.