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> Anger is not at all useless, it is a powerful and extremely useful emotion. A while ago I had a loved one both harmed and threatened. I called my insurance,

> Anger is not at all useless, it is a powerful and extremely useful emotion. A while ago I had a loved one both harmed and threatened. I called my insurance, who gave me a lawyer, who got the facts from my loved one and combined them with the law, giving the case to a judge, who gave us a court order which allowed us to both (a) remedy the harm, and (b) get law enforcement backup. For this outcome, very little energy, and no courage (at least on our parts), was required. How would anger —or even moral outrage— have improved the situation?

adriand 3y ago
It sounds to me like you were driven more by other emotions — perhaps feelings of care, concern or worry. That doesn't prove that anger is useless, simply that in that situation, it wasn't the primary emotion you were experiencing or that drove your behaviour. But let's suppose that the same situation unfolded, except you were Black, and the treatment you received by the legal system was rude and dismissive in ways that you were familiar with, having experienced racism many times before. In that situation you might experience much more anger, and you might rely on that anger to give you the courage and energy to deal with the injustice you were experiencing.
anonymouskimmer 3y ago
> How would anger —or even moral outrage— have improved the situation? If at any point the chain of actions had broken down, anger would have granted the motivation to pursue through the roadblock. You do understand that this very system implicitly disadvantages those who do not have such straightforward access to it, right?
- 082349872349872 3y ago
  That's why I moved to a country where (a, specifically) the rule of law is accessible to all, and (b, generally) important things rarely break down. Justice is depicted as blind in statuary for a reason. Edit: upon reflection, even in the Old Country, where accessibility to the law is debatable, anger doesn't seem useful. Either someone has the power to gain remedy by extralegal means or they do not, and whether they are angry or not when they make that attempt has little —despite movie plots— to do with the actual state of their power.
  - 082349872349872 3y ago
    To be more explicit: either one has the power to gain remedy via extralegal means or one does not. If one does, doing so angrily or not doesn't change much. If one does not, I claim that first gaining the necessary power ("sleep on brushwood and taste gall") is much more likely to be effective than rashly attempting something in the expectation anger should somehow magically augment one's initial lack of power. (in fact the latter rash attempts are likely to be advantageous for one's adversary, hence the original "hollywood for proles" conspiracy theoretic hypothesis given above)
    - anonymouskimmer 3y ago
      Emotions are motivation. Here's a decent article on the anger spectrum: https://psychology.tips/levels-of-anger/ https://psychology.tips/levels-of-anger/ It uses five degrees of anger (one could easily quibble, and add or subtract, based on general or personal ideas of anger): Irritation, Frustration, Resentment, Rage, and Hatred. Ask how anyone would be motivated to gain a legal or extralegal remedy if not feeling at the very least irritation. It's a serious mistake to only equate anger to rage or hatred.
      - 082349872349872 3y ago
        Aha, that's our problem: for me, anger is part of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fight-or-flight_response https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fight-or-flight_response and so Irritation, Frustration, and Resentment aren't included because they don't necessarily involve that article's: > Impaired Decision Making: When consumed by anger, rational thinking tends to take a backseat which could result in poor decision making. (In fact, because my major interest is in good decision making despite high adrenaline levels, I lump Irritation, Frustration, and Resentment into a boring Dissatisfaction; I can appreciate that distinguishing these as well as linking them to the highly-limbic expressions of anger would be useful for people who are discussing non-adrenalised states, but for me the non-adrenalised/adrenalised boundary yields a clear qualitative distinction between dissatisfaction and anger) I guess it might help if natural language agreed on emotional ranges at least to the extent that it agrees on colour names...

adriand 3y ago

It sounds to me like you were driven more by other emotions — perhaps feelings of care, concern or worry. That doesn't prove that anger is useless, simply that in that situation, it wasn't the primary emotion you were experiencing or that drove your behaviour. But let's suppose that the same situation unfolded, except you were Black, and the treatment you received by the legal system was rude and dismissive in ways that you were familiar with, having experienced racism many times before. In that situation you might experience much more anger, and you might rely on that anger to give you the courage and energy to deal with the injustice you were experiencing.

anonymouskimmer 3y ago

> How would anger —or even moral outrage— have improved the situation? If at any point the chain of actions had broken down, anger would have granted the motivation to pursue through the roadblock. You do understand that this very system implicitly disadvantages those who do not have such straightforward access to it, right?

082349872349872 3y ago
That's why I moved to a country where (a, specifically) the rule of law is accessible to all, and (b, generally) important things rarely break down. Justice is depicted as blind in statuary for a reason. Edit: upon reflection, even in the Old Country, where accessibility to the law is debatable, anger doesn't seem useful. Either someone has the power to gain remedy by extralegal means or they do not, and whether they are angry or not when they make that attempt has little —despite movie plots— to do with the actual state of their power.
- 082349872349872 3y ago
  To be more explicit: either one has the power to gain remedy via extralegal means or one does not. If one does, doing so angrily or not doesn't change much. If one does not, I claim that first gaining the necessary power ("sleep on brushwood and taste gall") is much more likely to be effective than rashly attempting something in the expectation anger should somehow magically augment one's initial lack of power. (in fact the latter rash attempts are likely to be advantageous for one's adversary, hence the original "hollywood for proles" conspiracy theoretic hypothesis given above)
  - anonymouskimmer 3y ago
    Emotions are motivation. Here's a decent article on the anger spectrum: https://psychology.tips/levels-of-anger/ https://psychology.tips/levels-of-anger/ It uses five degrees of anger (one could easily quibble, and add or subtract, based on general or personal ideas of anger): Irritation, Frustration, Resentment, Rage, and Hatred. Ask how anyone would be motivated to gain a legal or extralegal remedy if not feeling at the very least irritation. It's a serious mistake to only equate anger to rage or hatred.
    - 082349872349872 3y ago
      Aha, that's our problem: for me, anger is part of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fight-or-flight_response https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fight-or-flight_response and so Irritation, Frustration, and Resentment aren't included because they don't necessarily involve that article's: > Impaired Decision Making: When consumed by anger, rational thinking tends to take a backseat which could result in poor decision making. (In fact, because my major interest is in good decision making despite high adrenaline levels, I lump Irritation, Frustration, and Resentment into a boring Dissatisfaction; I can appreciate that distinguishing these as well as linking them to the highly-limbic expressions of anger would be useful for people who are discussing non-adrenalised states, but for me the non-adrenalised/adrenalised boundary yields a clear qualitative distinction between dissatisfaction and anger) I guess it might help if natural language agreed on emotional ranges at least to the extent that it agrees on colour names...