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There's a scale of disagreement and responses I see in people. Discomfort You can agree, and accept the evidence of something. And yet still say in good faith
by nonrandomstring 3y ago
There's a scale of disagreement and responses I see in people.
Discomfort
You can agree, and accept the evidence of something. And yet still say
in good faith that you don't "go along" with that. My favourite idiom
is when French people say "Sure, But that's not my philosophy".
Personal philosophy is considered of equal importance to
"scientific"/observed truth and expressing discomfort is okay. An
example might be "AI being able to write poems as well as people".
Even if a study shows that nobody can tell the machine from the poet,
one can still say "I am not okay with that fact". The discontent makes
no effort to challenge, except maybe personal withdrawal or denial.
Scepticism
This is healthy. Indeed it's part of the scientific method. We should
always tolerate and maybe encourage sceptical thinking. The sceptic
debates and disputes. But the sceptic is still open to being won over
by arguments. The sceptic is expressive of her disagreement.
Cynicism
When we see again and again that a group or an idea is wrong, or
persistently deceptive, the focus shifts from the ideas to the
identity of the group. Nothing said by <psychologists or economists or
politicians> or whatever can be trusted. A cynic can be healed, but
often only by overwhelming new evidence or a deep personal shift in
world view.
Opposition
The opponent has already decided in their mind they cannot or will not
accept some ideas. The good opponent sets up an alternative hypothesis
and engages in research to find new truths that will hopefully
displace the old ones. The negative opponent spends time only on
discrediting others.
Iconoclasm and Vendettas
This is the height of unreason. Being stuck in a black and white
world, split over good and evil in which the opposition must be
completely eradicated. I see this more and more in the world now.
People, like the "internet campaigners" you mention make a career out
of aggressive iconoclasm. They engage in "wars on..." and talk of
"zero tolerance".
---
Not sure I want to attach moral value judgement to any of these
"levels", I'm sure I can be capable of all. Some things are clearly
rotten in the world and people are tepidly accepting of them, whereas
other things absolutely need consigning to history. But there's a lot
of ugliness in the last two categories even if they are morally
justified.
- kelseyfrog 3y agoThere's definitely opposition and psychology iconoclasts floating around here. Others would label this as "trapped priors." I like to ask, "what evidence would change your mind?" to suss this out. Usually I get no response and the conversation dies. The other response is a standard of evidence unattainable - another way of justifying a trapped priors. If the evidence required outside of the realm of possibility, it's effectively the same thing.
- nonrandomstring 3y ago> "trapped priors." Very interesting. Never heard of that. Thank you. Looking now.
- wolverine876 3y agoI love your typology, which puts my experience to words very well. Did you invent it? I'll add an old quote attributed to Voltaire: "Doubt is an uncomfortable condition, but certainty is a ridiculous one."
- nonrandomstring 3y agoLiterally pulled it out my arse two hours ago thinking about a tussle I had with scarface here yesterday over Javascript of all things, and how I handled it. Trying to figure where I stand on that scale of reasonableness (or not) and "intellectual curiosity" as our good man dang frames it in the HN rules. Must use that Voltaire quote now, thanks.