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What’s wrong with Javascript

vorticalbox 3y ago
Nothing really but lots of it is not a nice experience.
jwells89 3y ago
It’s not JS itself that’s the problem, it’s the need to write it to fill gaps in browser facilities. Rather than there be 10k different implementations of a scrolling recycler list of wildly varying quality, there could just be one in each browser engine that web devs can rely on, allowing them to instead focus on writing application code.
- deadbabe 3y ago
  Even if those facilities were available wouldn’t the complaints then shift to some other high level facility not being available natively?
  - jwells89 3y ago
    It’d be rinse-and-repeat until browsers had a decent toolkit out of the box, yes. That doesn’t strike me as a bad thing.
  - charcircuit 3y ago
    Yes, and as the next and next gets resolved over time browsers would be easier and faster to develop high quality products on enhancing the value of the web ecosystem.
lta 3y ago
What is not ?
bsimpson 3y ago
The web was originally a document sharing program for academics. JavaScript was never a "batteries included" language because the web wasn't built as an app platform. It evolved into one, and the platform has improved for app development with things like modules, but it is still part of an ecosystem that expects the developer to bring the app framework. Custom Elements tried to solve this, but React came and solved the same problem in a more ergonomic way. So now, we're in the same place: apps are built with open source stacks like React where you have to bring your own toolkit because the browser doesn't make assumptions about which one you're using. The web is a lot like Linux: it evolved as thousands of developers try thousands of different ways of doing things. Some of those things are great and become de facto standards, but it's an ecosystem you can't manage top-down. If you've ever worked at Google, there's a famous internal deck about how decentralized ecosystems evolve like an amorphous slime mold. It's written in the context of Google product management, but it applies to things like Linux, and the web too.
behnamoh 3y ago
> What’s wrong with Javascript Javascript.

Nothing really but lots of it is not a nice experience.

It’s not JS itself that’s the problem, it’s the need to write it to fill gaps in browser facilities. Rather than there be 10k different implementations of a scrolling recycler list of wildly varying quality, there could just be one in each browser engine that web devs can rely on, allowing them to instead focus on writing application code.

deadbabe 3y ago
Even if those facilities were available wouldn’t the complaints then shift to some other high level facility not being available natively?
- jwells89 3y ago
  It’d be rinse-and-repeat until browsers had a decent toolkit out of the box, yes. That doesn’t strike me as a bad thing.
- charcircuit 3y ago
  Yes, and as the next and next gets resolved over time browsers would be easier and faster to develop high quality products on enhancing the value of the web ecosystem.

lta 3y ago

What is not ?

bsimpson 3y ago

The web was originally a document sharing program for academics. JavaScript was never a "batteries included" language because the web wasn't built as an app platform. It evolved into one, and the platform has improved for app development with things like modules, but it is still part of an ecosystem that expects the developer to bring the app framework. Custom Elements tried to solve this, but React came and solved the same problem in a more ergonomic way. So now, we're in the same place: apps are built with open source stacks like React where you have to bring your own toolkit because the browser doesn't make assumptions about which one you're using. The web is a lot like Linux: it evolved as thousands of developers try thousands of different ways of doing things. Some of those things are great and become de facto standards, but it's an ecosystem you can't manage top-down. If you've ever worked at Google, there's a famous internal deck about how decentralized ecosystems evolve like an amorphous slime mold. It's written in the context of Google product management, but it applies to things like Linux, and the web too.

behnamoh 3y ago

> What’s wrong with Javascript Javascript.