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Despite this, total NFL attendance set a record last season with almost 19 million fans going to stadiums, and 96.7% of games were sold out. I guess tickets we

Despite this, total NFL attendance set a record last season with almost 19 million fans going to stadiums, and 96.7% of games were sold out. I guess tickets were underpriced before? The demand is clearly outstripping supply. Can't even blame this one on the hedge funds.

NegativeLatency 3y ago
Supply is also constrained since the league is effectively a cartel controlling supply (only so many teams are allowed)
- vidanay 3y ago
  Is there a professional sports league anywhere that is not the same?
  - OJFord 3y ago
    GP's not saying it negatively/judgementally I don't think, it's sort of a term of art in business finance: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/cartel.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/cartel.asp (I say sort of because you could say it's the same word same definition just perhaps used more literally. But it certainly has a connotation to most of us that I think is how you're reading it above.)
  - elygre 3y ago
    In many European soccer leagues, the league does not control the participants in the same way. You can start a club, and start climbing to the top.
    - mcny 3y ago
      Yes, the fact that there is no relegation/promotion is strange.
      - votepaunchy 3y ago
        Only strange that the biggest European clubs failed to breakaway into their own Super League without pro/rel. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Super_League https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Super_League
  - charcircuit 3y ago
    There are plenty in esports.
- jrockway 3y ago
  Didn't Fox start a new football league this year? I think the NFL is more of an entrenched business with great brand recognition than a cartel. College football players want an NFL contract because they trust that the NFL will be around in 10 years. (Same reason that CS grads want to work for Google and not a random startup; Google will be around in 5 years.) This means that the NFL gets first pick on the most talented players. That is what prevents upstart leagues from being successful. Players have seen what happened to competing leagues; their counterparts are now unemployed. Without good players, nobody is going to watch your thing, and thus, the NFL will continue to dominate. I think that with an infinite amount of money, you could probably create a new football league for a new generation. You will need billions of dollars to build 32 new stadiums. You will need billions of dollars to pay Patrick Mahomes $500M a year to switch sides. (x32 teams x53 players on the roster = 800 billion dollars a year in salary costs ;) Because nobody has an infinite amount of money, it's not really going to happen that way. I bet you could woo a number of viewers over by having a sane online streaming package. I want to watch every game in the season for a fixed price. No blackouts. No ads. No delay.
  - rsync 3y ago
    The NFL has an exemption from the Sherman antitrust act. Therefore, we need not argue about whether they are or are not a cartel - or are engaging in anti-competitive behavior: our government has already defined them as such.
    - jrockway 3y ago
      It's somewhat unclear if they even need the exemption. It's only relevant to TV licensing deals, and TV ain't what it used to be. The NFL mostly exists to keep the dying TV business alive, but nobody actually wants to watch the NFL on TV. If the TV deals were ruled illegal, the NFL would live and the TV stations would die.
      - thehoff 3y ago
        Maybe but I doubt the NFL would continue on the way it does without TV. They must make a ton off networks who then make it back via advertising, but maybe I’m wrong. My group of friends and I definitely watch and don’t go to games because of the cost (we would not go to games just because they are not in TV). College football around here is much more affordable (as are college basketball games, G league for basketball, and minor league baseball).
brvsft 3y ago
Just to state the potentially obvious, there are fewer NFL games than MLB or NBA (by about an order of magnitude, 272 NFL games per year vs. ~2,400 MLB games and ~2,400 NBA games), so the supply of seats is far more limited.
- singron 3y ago
  NFL games are also overwhelmingly on weekends.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
echelon 3y ago
When you spend every week watching football, it probably means more to a lot of folks than a nice laptop or new smartphone. It's a major part of some people's lives. Modern sports has mastered the art of storytelling and rivalry. They immerse you in the players' and coaches' lives, and fans begin to find their favorites to root for and against. It's not surprising fans will pay $500, $1000, or more to see an especially memorable game. Or pay top dollar for a signed jersey. This is no different than any other hobby. Lives are short and people want to immerse themselves in the things they love.
- kjkjadksj 3y ago
  Then there’s also fantasy sports and gambling that encourage you to keep up with every game that is going on in the league, not just your own local team.
- batiudrami 3y ago
  That is true but it’s also why I feel so strongly about not optimising it to extract more money from fewer wealthier people. I don’t know - in Australia we oversize stadiums and, relative to population, expand our leagues much more so that there is much more opportunity to attend in person. A family of four can attend anything except finals (playoffs) for easily under au$100. But private ownership isn’t a part of the most popular codes. I love live sport, and it’d be sad if the opportunity to attend was restricted to only the wealthy because charging half the people 5x the money is the optimal business decision.
  - anomaly_ 3y ago
    With a limited supply, you are going to have to allocate tickets somehow.

NegativeLatency 3y ago

Supply is also constrained since the league is effectively a cartel controlling supply (only so many teams are allowed)

vidanay 3y ago
Is there a professional sports league anywhere that is not the same?
- OJFord 3y ago
  GP's not saying it negatively/judgementally I don't think, it's sort of a term of art in business finance: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/cartel.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/cartel.asp (I say sort of because you could say it's the same word same definition just perhaps used more literally. But it certainly has a connotation to most of us that I think is how you're reading it above.)
- elygre 3y ago
  In many European soccer leagues, the league does not control the participants in the same way. You can start a club, and start climbing to the top.
  - mcny 3y ago
    Yes, the fact that there is no relegation/promotion is strange.
    - votepaunchy 3y ago
      Only strange that the biggest European clubs failed to breakaway into their own Super League without pro/rel. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Super_League https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Super_League
- charcircuit 3y ago
  There are plenty in esports.
jrockway 3y ago
Didn't Fox start a new football league this year? I think the NFL is more of an entrenched business with great brand recognition than a cartel. College football players want an NFL contract because they trust that the NFL will be around in 10 years. (Same reason that CS grads want to work for Google and not a random startup; Google will be around in 5 years.) This means that the NFL gets first pick on the most talented players. That is what prevents upstart leagues from being successful. Players have seen what happened to competing leagues; their counterparts are now unemployed. Without good players, nobody is going to watch your thing, and thus, the NFL will continue to dominate. I think that with an infinite amount of money, you could probably create a new football league for a new generation. You will need billions of dollars to build 32 new stadiums. You will need billions of dollars to pay Patrick Mahomes $500M a year to switch sides. (x32 teams x53 players on the roster = 800 billion dollars a year in salary costs ;) Because nobody has an infinite amount of money, it's not really going to happen that way. I bet you could woo a number of viewers over by having a sane online streaming package. I want to watch every game in the season for a fixed price. No blackouts. No ads. No delay.
- rsync 3y ago
  The NFL has an exemption from the Sherman antitrust act. Therefore, we need not argue about whether they are or are not a cartel - or are engaging in anti-competitive behavior: our government has already defined them as such.
  - jrockway 3y ago
    It's somewhat unclear if they even need the exemption. It's only relevant to TV licensing deals, and TV ain't what it used to be. The NFL mostly exists to keep the dying TV business alive, but nobody actually wants to watch the NFL on TV. If the TV deals were ruled illegal, the NFL would live and the TV stations would die.
    - thehoff 3y ago
      Maybe but I doubt the NFL would continue on the way it does without TV. They must make a ton off networks who then make it back via advertising, but maybe I’m wrong. My group of friends and I definitely watch and don’t go to games because of the cost (we would not go to games just because they are not in TV). College football around here is much more affordable (as are college basketball games, G league for basketball, and minor league baseball).

brvsft 3y ago

Just to state the potentially obvious, there are fewer NFL games than MLB or NBA (by about an order of magnitude, 272 NFL games per year vs. ~2,400 MLB games and ~2,400 NBA games), so the supply of seats is far more limited.

singron 3y ago
NFL games are also overwhelmingly on weekends.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

echelon 3y ago

When you spend every week watching football, it probably means more to a lot of folks than a nice laptop or new smartphone. It's a major part of some people's lives. Modern sports has mastered the art of storytelling and rivalry. They immerse you in the players' and coaches' lives, and fans begin to find their favorites to root for and against. It's not surprising fans will pay $500, $1000, or more to see an especially memorable game. Or pay top dollar for a signed jersey. This is no different than any other hobby. Lives are short and people want to immerse themselves in the things they love.

kjkjadksj 3y ago
Then there’s also fantasy sports and gambling that encourage you to keep up with every game that is going on in the league, not just your own local team.
batiudrami 3y ago
That is true but it’s also why I feel so strongly about not optimising it to extract more money from fewer wealthier people. I don’t know - in Australia we oversize stadiums and, relative to population, expand our leagues much more so that there is much more opportunity to attend in person. A family of four can attend anything except finals (playoffs) for easily under au$100. But private ownership isn’t a part of the most popular codes. I love live sport, and it’d be sad if the opportunity to attend was restricted to only the wealthy because charging half the people 5x the money is the optimal business decision.
- anomaly_ 3y ago
  With a limited supply, you are going to have to allocate tickets somehow.