3 ms·

I think this is because Apple is a hardware company, that uses software to attract consumers. While Microsoft is a software company, that uses hardware to attra

I think this is because Apple is a hardware company, that uses software to attract consumers. While Microsoft is a software company, that uses hardware to attract consumers.

coffeebeqn 3y ago
Apple is a vertically integrated company. They offer you (in theory) everything you need for computing
- dtagames 3y ago
  Except cloud services for business, which are increasingly vital. And without AI, also a big deal now.
- steve1977 3y ago
  If you are a consumer or for example a creative pro. If you are a big enterprise, not so much.
clarkmoreno 3y ago
Re-read that. Microsoft uses hardware to attract customers?
- ysavir 3y ago
  I don't know the GP's intention, but I'm guessing it's that MS's actual products are all software (Windows, Office, etc) and the allure is that they can be sold on/come packaged with relatively cheap and available computing. Compare to Apple, where they primarily sell hardware, and use software (whether their own or 3rd party) to make that hardware desirable, especially at high price points.
- yoav 3y ago
  Everyone universally loved the zoon and the windows phone.
  - generalpf 3y ago
    You dropped this: /s
- rplst8 3y ago
  Yeah I don't agree with that assertion either. Microsoft will produce hardware to show the art of the possible with their software. It largely comes out of a situation where the PC/device manufacturers were doing a sh* job of it.
  - dragonwriter 3y ago
    Hardware manufacturers that aren't Microsoft have little reason to take speculative risks that might prove that there's a market for a new configuration of commodity hardware to sell Microsoft’s latest non-commodity software; it's all potential downside with very little potential upside.
medstrom 3y ago
That's an old saying. It's not so clear-cut now.
oneplane 3y ago
A better way to describe their differences is that Apple started as an end-user company (and became a services company while at it) where hardware was a means to an end. The products they sell are based around an experience rather than just a bag of components/parts, as those are just the means to an end. It's why their design envelope is the way it is, and why the kept vertically integrating more and more over the decades. In a way, that's where the IWM and SWIM came in so long ago, not because they had to, but because it delivered a better solution to that specific experience than anyone else. (granted, back then using a computer had a very different meaning than it does today but the reasoning still applies) Microsoft on the other hand is a typical SKU-mover, their business relies on selling 'parts' of someone else's workflow, but later on realised the only way to have a consistent experience is to also start making the hardware. Later on, they tacked on services, but because they kept the "spray the market with SKUs" business strategy it mostly just became 'more', rather than better integrated products for people. It's still "move as much stuff", even if it's not well-integrated. Heck, sometimes it is less-integrated because it enables moving more stuff. At the end of the day, most large tech multinationals end up manufacturing a lot of stuff over the various layers (hardware, software, firmware, entire devices, individual components etc), but that no longer describes what the company actually "is". (just like it doesn't really describe much to group them together as "commercial money makers", it isn't very specific or useful)
- jsjohnst 3y ago
  > In a way, that's where the IWM and SWIM came in so long ago I’m going to assume based on minimal context you are meaning the 40 year old floppy controllers? Since these acronyms are fairly obtuse / not well known… IWM - integrated woz machine https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_Woz_Machine https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_Woz_Machine SWIM - replacement for IWM which supported the SuperDrive
- mlhpdx 3y ago
  > Microsoft on the other hand is a typical SKU-mover As far as I can tell there is nothing typical about Microsoft. The sophisticated, deeply-root long game they’ve executed extremely well puts them in a very different place. As a contrast to Apple, the differences are striking - not because of the difference between “bing” and “bling”.

I think this is because Apple is a hardware company, that uses software to attract consumers. While Microsoft is a software company, that uses hardware to attract consumers.

coffeebeqn 3y ago

Apple is a vertically integrated company. They offer you (in theory) everything you need for computing

dtagames 3y ago
Except cloud services for business, which are increasingly vital. And without AI, also a big deal now.
steve1977 3y ago
If you are a consumer or for example a creative pro. If you are a big enterprise, not so much.

clarkmoreno 3y ago

Re-read that. Microsoft uses hardware to attract customers?

ysavir 3y ago
I don't know the GP's intention, but I'm guessing it's that MS's actual products are all software (Windows, Office, etc) and the allure is that they can be sold on/come packaged with relatively cheap and available computing. Compare to Apple, where they primarily sell hardware, and use software (whether their own or 3rd party) to make that hardware desirable, especially at high price points.
yoav 3y ago
Everyone universally loved the zoon and the windows phone.
- generalpf 3y ago
  You dropped this: /s
rplst8 3y ago
Yeah I don't agree with that assertion either. Microsoft will produce hardware to show the art of the possible with their software. It largely comes out of a situation where the PC/device manufacturers were doing a sh* job of it.
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  Hardware manufacturers that aren't Microsoft have little reason to take speculative risks that might prove that there's a market for a new configuration of commodity hardware to sell Microsoft’s latest non-commodity software; it's all potential downside with very little potential upside.

medstrom 3y ago

That's an old saying. It's not so clear-cut now.

oneplane 3y ago

A better way to describe their differences is that Apple started as an end-user company (and became a services company while at it) where hardware was a means to an end. The products they sell are based around an experience rather than just a bag of components/parts, as those are just the means to an end. It's why their design envelope is the way it is, and why the kept vertically integrating more and more over the decades. In a way, that's where the IWM and SWIM came in so long ago, not because they had to, but because it delivered a better solution to that specific experience than anyone else. (granted, back then using a computer had a very different meaning than it does today but the reasoning still applies) Microsoft on the other hand is a typical SKU-mover, their business relies on selling 'parts' of someone else's workflow, but later on realised the only way to have a consistent experience is to also start making the hardware. Later on, they tacked on services, but because they kept the "spray the market with SKUs" business strategy it mostly just became 'more', rather than better integrated products for people. It's still "move as much stuff", even if it's not well-integrated. Heck, sometimes it is less-integrated because it enables moving more stuff. At the end of the day, most large tech multinationals end up manufacturing a lot of stuff over the various layers (hardware, software, firmware, entire devices, individual components etc), but that no longer describes what the company actually "is". (just like it doesn't really describe much to group them together as "commercial money makers", it isn't very specific or useful)

jsjohnst 3y ago
> In a way, that's where the IWM and SWIM came in so long ago I’m going to assume based on minimal context you are meaning the 40 year old floppy controllers? Since these acronyms are fairly obtuse / not well known… IWM - integrated woz machine https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_Woz_Machine https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_Woz_Machine SWIM - replacement for IWM which supported the SuperDrive
mlhpdx 3y ago
> Microsoft on the other hand is a typical SKU-mover As far as I can tell there is nothing typical about Microsoft. The sophisticated, deeply-root long game they’ve executed extremely well puts them in a very different place. As a contrast to Apple, the differences are striking - not because of the difference between “bing” and “bling”.