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The problem at least where I live in Europe is that people stopped buying grocery plastic bags, which is good. But they were frequently re-used as garbage bags.

The problem at least where I live in Europe is that people stopped buying grocery plastic bags, which is good. But they were frequently re-used as garbage bags. Now people instead buy plastic garbage bag rolls. So even if the consumption of plastic shopping bags has decreased, the consumption of plastic garbage bags has greatly increased. Might well be easier to recycle the garbage bags. One could hope.

mepiethree 3y ago
Anecdotally, people in my life used to buy plastic garbage bags and use shopping bags as garbage bags (or dog poop bags) in smaller-sized garbage bins. Also anecdotally, despite the fact that I almost always grocery shop with reusable bags, I still somehow have plenty of plastic bags under my sink at any given time to use in my smaller trash bins. There are plenty of non-grocery places I get plastic bags: CVS, take out meals, Home Depot. These more than fill my need for small plastic garbage bags.
- gnicholas 3y ago
  Where we live they don’t give free bags at CVS or other stores. I think restaurants may have an exception for take out, but those bags often get sauce spilled all over the inside, making them unsuitable for saving or reuse (except immediately, as a trash bag). > Where I live (Silicon Valley), paper and plastic bags were both subject to the same treatment. In Menlo Park you can buy bags when you shop for $.25 each. The plastic bags at Safeway are much thicker (i.e., use more plastic, and are hypothetically reusable more times) than before. The paper bags are the same as before, but now you pay for them (the revenue goes to the store).
lotsofpulp 3y ago
No, that type of thin plastic is not recyclable.
- sokoloff 3y ago
  Thin grocery (and garbage) bags are sheet polyethylene, the plastic of which is just as recyclable as milk bottles. They are not accepted in many curbside recycling programs because the separation tech is not designed for them, not because the plastic itself is not recyclable. They are recyclable (and frequently recycled) via dedicated collection points. (Most of our grocery stores have them.)
- dragontamer 3y ago
  Yes and no. They are recyclable. But because of their low weight, high amounts of contamination, and constant ability to get stuck in conveyor belts... Thin plastic bags are more trouble than they are worth. It's like Aluminum foil. Recycling plants are paid per ton of recycled material, and it takes lots and lots of aluminum foil before a ton of Aluminum is saved up. Except plastic is way harder to recycle than Aluminum (requires higher purities).
  - PlunderBunny 3y ago
    It depends of course, on where you are and what type of recycling schemes are available. As a general rule, “don’t put plastic bags in with your regular recycling” is correct. But we have a very successful ‘soft plastic’ recycling scheme in New Zealand that results in useful products (I have 52 fence posts made with thousands of recycled milk bottles and plastic bags).
    - dragontamer 3y ago
      Yeah, my location also has special containers for clean plastic bags. But general recycling no longer takes them.
gnicholas 3y ago
I never bought trash bags before these bans went into effect. Now it’s one of our subscribe and saves. I wouldn’t be surprised if the net effect was that we are using more plastic now than before, even though we use reusable bags most of the time when we go shopping.
andrewstuart 3y ago
Plastic bags are banned here in Australia. I too use plastic bags as rubbish bags. I can say that despite the ban on plastic shopping bags there is never any shortage of plastic bags. Admittedly I use small plastic bags but it's virtually impossible to buy food that doesn't use plastic bags - I use them.
artiii 3y ago
grocery bags are made from newly produced plastic (sametimes clean recycled ak highest grade, because food requirements). Garbage bags, on the other hand, are made from the lowest possible grade recycl, which can't be recycled.
barrkel 3y ago
Littering is the problem solved by charging for or banning free carrier bags, not usage of plastic bags. If your rubbish goes to landfill, don't expect a reduction in rubbish bags as a component. They're very light though. IMO it's better to incinerate them. That's what Switzerland does. I think it largely works, as long as you have enough routes to take dangerous chemicals (electronics and batteries mostly, heavy metals) out of the the waste pipeline.
notzane 3y ago
There’s been some research showing the effect you’re seeing is real. > We estimate that CGB [carryout grocery bag] regulations lead to an average increase in purchased plastics of 127 pounds per store per month, ranging from 30 to 135 (37–224) pounds for 4-gallon (8-gallon) trash bags. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10640-022-00646-5 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10640-022-00646-5
nedt 3y ago
Well you can always take biodegradable garbage bags. Built-In recycling, they just become soil again.

mepiethree 3y ago

Anecdotally, people in my life used to buy plastic garbage bags and use shopping bags as garbage bags (or dog poop bags) in smaller-sized garbage bins. Also anecdotally, despite the fact that I almost always grocery shop with reusable bags, I still somehow have plenty of plastic bags under my sink at any given time to use in my smaller trash bins. There are plenty of non-grocery places I get plastic bags: CVS, take out meals, Home Depot. These more than fill my need for small plastic garbage bags.

gnicholas 3y ago
Where we live they don’t give free bags at CVS or other stores. I think restaurants may have an exception for take out, but those bags often get sauce spilled all over the inside, making them unsuitable for saving or reuse (except immediately, as a trash bag). > Where I live (Silicon Valley), paper and plastic bags were both subject to the same treatment. In Menlo Park you can buy bags when you shop for $.25 each. The plastic bags at Safeway are much thicker (i.e., use more plastic, and are hypothetically reusable more times) than before. The paper bags are the same as before, but now you pay for them (the revenue goes to the store).

lotsofpulp 3y ago

No, that type of thin plastic is not recyclable.

sokoloff 3y ago
Thin grocery (and garbage) bags are sheet polyethylene, the plastic of which is just as recyclable as milk bottles. They are not accepted in many curbside recycling programs because the separation tech is not designed for them, not because the plastic itself is not recyclable. They are recyclable (and frequently recycled) via dedicated collection points. (Most of our grocery stores have them.)
dragontamer 3y ago
Yes and no. They are recyclable. But because of their low weight, high amounts of contamination, and constant ability to get stuck in conveyor belts... Thin plastic bags are more trouble than they are worth. It's like Aluminum foil. Recycling plants are paid per ton of recycled material, and it takes lots and lots of aluminum foil before a ton of Aluminum is saved up. Except plastic is way harder to recycle than Aluminum (requires higher purities).
- PlunderBunny 3y ago
  It depends of course, on where you are and what type of recycling schemes are available. As a general rule, “don’t put plastic bags in with your regular recycling” is correct. But we have a very successful ‘soft plastic’ recycling scheme in New Zealand that results in useful products (I have 52 fence posts made with thousands of recycled milk bottles and plastic bags).
  - dragontamer 3y ago
    Yeah, my location also has special containers for clean plastic bags. But general recycling no longer takes them.

gnicholas 3y ago

I never bought trash bags before these bans went into effect. Now it’s one of our subscribe and saves. I wouldn’t be surprised if the net effect was that we are using more plastic now than before, even though we use reusable bags most of the time when we go shopping.

andrewstuart 3y ago

Plastic bags are banned here in Australia. I too use plastic bags as rubbish bags. I can say that despite the ban on plastic shopping bags there is never any shortage of plastic bags. Admittedly I use small plastic bags but it's virtually impossible to buy food that doesn't use plastic bags - I use them.

artiii 3y ago

grocery bags are made from newly produced plastic (sametimes clean recycled ak highest grade, because food requirements). Garbage bags, on the other hand, are made from the lowest possible grade recycl, which can't be recycled.

barrkel 3y ago

Littering is the problem solved by charging for or banning free carrier bags, not usage of plastic bags. If your rubbish goes to landfill, don't expect a reduction in rubbish bags as a component. They're very light though. IMO it's better to incinerate them. That's what Switzerland does. I think it largely works, as long as you have enough routes to take dangerous chemicals (electronics and batteries mostly, heavy metals) out of the the waste pipeline.

notzane 3y ago

There’s been some research showing the effect you’re seeing is real. > We estimate that CGB [carryout grocery bag] regulations lead to an average increase in purchased plastics of 127 pounds per store per month, ranging from 30 to 135 (37–224) pounds for 4-gallon (8-gallon) trash bags. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10640-022-00646-5 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10640-022-00646-5

nedt 3y ago

Well you can always take biodegradable garbage bags. Built-In recycling, they just become soil again.