3 ms·

every process has exceptions. and there is no process stronger than the manager firing an employee for disobeying an order.

cj 3y ago
> every process has exceptions Except these sort of transfers almost always happen with, at a minimum, dual approval where exceptions cannot be made because it's software defining the rule. 1 employee submits the transaction for review, and a 2nd (and sometimes a 3rd, 4th) person must approve it before the payment initiates. There isn't typically a bypass function. Also, CFOs are typically responsible for setting up and enforcing these controls. A big part of a CFO's job is to manage risk. If you work under a CFO, you would be more likely to be rewarded for following the process than be punished. Obviously there are exceptions to this, but by and large no CFO would punish a finance person for disobeying an order to bypass a process intended to prevent financial fraud.
- MichaelZuo 3y ago
  Not if the CFO and the other most senior executives all order you to do so on a video call… hence the article.
- doubloon 3y ago
  "no CFO would punish a finance person for disobeying an order to bypass a process intended to prevent financial fraud." CFO are often involved in fraud. it is part of finance industry training to be wary of dealing with other financial institutions. https://tax.thomsonreuters.com/news/enron-former-cfo-i-am-one-of-the-poster-boys-for-fraud/ https://tax.thomsonreuters.com/news/enron-former-cfo-i-am-on... https://www.accountancydaily.co/ex-countrywide-cfo-charged-fraud https://www.accountancydaily.co/ex-countrywide-cfo-charged-f... https://www.businessinsider.com/bed-bath-and-beyond-cfo-found-dead-insider-trading-lawsuit-2022-9?op=1 https://www.businessinsider.com/bed-bath-and-beyond-cfo-foun... https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/01/nyregion/weisselberg-perjury-trump-fraud.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/01/nyregion/weisselberg-perj... https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndtx/pr/cfo-controller-corporate-officers-charged-53-million-fraud-scheme-involving-pandemic https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndtx/pr/cfo-controller-corporat... https://www.fraud-magazine.com/article.aspx?id=4294976271 https://www.fraud-magazine.com/article.aspx?id=4294976271 https://core.ac.uk/reader/231825040 https://core.ac.uk/reader/231825040 https://www.nydailynews.com/2023/10/05/former-ftx-co-founder-admits-to-carrying-out-fraud-with-fallen-crypto-king-sam-bankman-fried/ https://www.nydailynews.com/2023/10/05/former-ftx-co-founder... https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdwa/pr/former-company-chief-financial-officer-indicted-using-35-million-company-cash-invest https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdwa/pr/former-company-chief-fi... https://www.nydailynews.com/2023/10/05/former-ftx-co-founder-admits-to-carrying-out-fraud-with-fallen-crypto-king-sam-bankman-fried/ https://www.nydailynews.com/2023/10/05/former-ftx-co-founder... https://www.investopedia.com/terms/w/worldcom.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/w/worldcom.asp whistleblowers get punished all the time. https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/warning/interviews/born.html https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/warning/interviews/... https://www.institutionalinvestor.com/article/2btg8yx4pcckb0msut8u8/portfolio/what-ever-happened-to-lehman-brothers-whistle-blower-matthew-lee https://www.institutionalinvestor.com/article/2btg8yx4pcckb0... https://www.marketswiki.com/wiki/Madelyn_Antoncic https://www.marketswiki.com/wiki/Madelyn_Antoncic https://www.wsj.com/articles/wells-fargo-fined-22-million-for-alleged-whistleblower-retaliation-11662148588 https://www.wsj.com/articles/wells-fargo-fined-22-million-fo... https://www.npr.org/2016/11/04/500728907/senators-investigate-reports-wells-fargo-punished-workers https://www.npr.org/2016/11/04/500728907/senators-investigat... etc etc
  - cj 3y ago
    When I say “no CFO” would punish someone doing things that mitigate fraud… it’s the same as saying “no software engineer intentionally introduces bugs on purpose”. Obviously the statement isn’t literally accurate. Hopefully it’s 99% accurate (otherwise none of us would have jobs if all we did all day was sabotage our employers). Likewise, not every CFO is to be trusted, nor are all software engineers… but most can be.
mvc 3y ago
I think there's a lot of people here making the wrong assumption about how their CFO would react to being told no. These people aren't stupid. I'd expect them to understand risk better than your average senior software engineer and if you tell them "Sorry boss, too risky to do that right now. I can't be 100% sure this message is genuine. Let's sync on this after your meeting", your chances of promotion at this company would likely rise, not fall.
mcv 3y ago
Chalk that up as another reason why employers shouldn't be able to fire people too easily.

cj 3y ago

> every process has exceptions Except these sort of transfers almost always happen with, at a minimum, dual approval where exceptions cannot be made because it's software defining the rule. 1 employee submits the transaction for review, and a 2nd (and sometimes a 3rd, 4th) person must approve it before the payment initiates. There isn't typically a bypass function. Also, CFOs are typically responsible for setting up and enforcing these controls. A big part of a CFO's job is to manage risk. If you work under a CFO, you would be more likely to be rewarded for following the process than be punished. Obviously there are exceptions to this, but by and large no CFO would punish a finance person for disobeying an order to bypass a process intended to prevent financial fraud.

MichaelZuo 3y ago
Not if the CFO and the other most senior executives all order you to do so on a video call… hence the article.
doubloon 3y ago
"no CFO would punish a finance person for disobeying an order to bypass a process intended to prevent financial fraud." CFO are often involved in fraud. it is part of finance industry training to be wary of dealing with other financial institutions. https://tax.thomsonreuters.com/news/enron-former-cfo-i-am-one-of-the-poster-boys-for-fraud/ https://tax.thomsonreuters.com/news/enron-former-cfo-i-am-on... https://www.accountancydaily.co/ex-countrywide-cfo-charged-fraud https://www.accountancydaily.co/ex-countrywide-cfo-charged-f... https://www.businessinsider.com/bed-bath-and-beyond-cfo-found-dead-insider-trading-lawsuit-2022-9?op=1 https://www.businessinsider.com/bed-bath-and-beyond-cfo-foun... https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/01/nyregion/weisselberg-perjury-trump-fraud.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/01/nyregion/weisselberg-perj... https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndtx/pr/cfo-controller-corporate-officers-charged-53-million-fraud-scheme-involving-pandemic https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndtx/pr/cfo-controller-corporat... https://www.fraud-magazine.com/article.aspx?id=4294976271 https://www.fraud-magazine.com/article.aspx?id=4294976271 https://core.ac.uk/reader/231825040 https://core.ac.uk/reader/231825040 https://www.nydailynews.com/2023/10/05/former-ftx-co-founder-admits-to-carrying-out-fraud-with-fallen-crypto-king-sam-bankman-fried/ https://www.nydailynews.com/2023/10/05/former-ftx-co-founder... https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdwa/pr/former-company-chief-financial-officer-indicted-using-35-million-company-cash-invest https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdwa/pr/former-company-chief-fi... https://www.nydailynews.com/2023/10/05/former-ftx-co-founder-admits-to-carrying-out-fraud-with-fallen-crypto-king-sam-bankman-fried/ https://www.nydailynews.com/2023/10/05/former-ftx-co-founder... https://www.investopedia.com/terms/w/worldcom.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/w/worldcom.asp whistleblowers get punished all the time. https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/warning/interviews/born.html https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/warning/interviews/... https://www.institutionalinvestor.com/article/2btg8yx4pcckb0msut8u8/portfolio/what-ever-happened-to-lehman-brothers-whistle-blower-matthew-lee https://www.institutionalinvestor.com/article/2btg8yx4pcckb0... https://www.marketswiki.com/wiki/Madelyn_Antoncic https://www.marketswiki.com/wiki/Madelyn_Antoncic https://www.wsj.com/articles/wells-fargo-fined-22-million-for-alleged-whistleblower-retaliation-11662148588 https://www.wsj.com/articles/wells-fargo-fined-22-million-fo... https://www.npr.org/2016/11/04/500728907/senators-investigate-reports-wells-fargo-punished-workers https://www.npr.org/2016/11/04/500728907/senators-investigat... etc etc
- cj 3y ago
  When I say “no CFO” would punish someone doing things that mitigate fraud… it’s the same as saying “no software engineer intentionally introduces bugs on purpose”. Obviously the statement isn’t literally accurate. Hopefully it’s 99% accurate (otherwise none of us would have jobs if all we did all day was sabotage our employers). Likewise, not every CFO is to be trusted, nor are all software engineers… but most can be.

mvc 3y ago

I think there's a lot of people here making the wrong assumption about how their CFO would react to being told no. These people aren't stupid. I'd expect them to understand risk better than your average senior software engineer and if you tell them "Sorry boss, too risky to do that right now. I can't be 100% sure this message is genuine. Let's sync on this after your meeting", your chances of promotion at this company would likely rise, not fall.

mcv 3y ago

Chalk that up as another reason why employers shouldn't be able to fire people too easily.